To wonder if this is fair?

[cleoteacher]

I was chatting to a friend who works for the MOD and has a 2.5 yo like me. We were talking about the high cost of childcare and she let slip how much she pays for childcare.

I was really shocked to find she pays a small amount more than me for the MOD nursery. Her dd goes there full time 8-6 and gets three meals a day whereas my ds goes 2 days a week to a childminder and gets two meals aday and she only pAys about £200 more than me.

I couldn't help myself to say what a bargain she was getting and left it at that.

But it did get me thinking whether this is fair? I am assuming the nursery is heavily funded by the government and so the tax payer. I know she is a tax payer too but can't help questioning the fairness of it.

Icelolly- yes an extremely nice incentive to have. Too nice perhaps

I can't see how it's unfair, different employers offer their employees different things, and as work benefits go, childcare is something that is good for both the employer and the employee. I'm quite happy for my taxes to contribute towards the state being a decent employer.

Can't you just be pleased for her!

You just sound bitter she has cheaper childcare. Do you feel it would be fairer on ALL MoD staff to have to pay more, including those who do the difficult, life-risking stuff? And who get paid less? Because if you don't think it's fair for her to get an employee benefit because it's state funded then surely none of them should?
FWIW when I was a civil servant we got bugger all, not all depts are the same.

It's ok to be jealous OP

Lives near to her work, works with her partner, good income, on-site nursery open for commensurate long hours

Loads of people would get a pang too I'll warrant

But you know - her job might have stuff involved you wouldn't like, nursery might not suit the child but gotta suck it up anyway etc

Your friends situation is rare, DH is army and most of his work mates move every 2-3 years. Most of their wives can't work as there is little chance for career progression when you have to change jobs so frequently, so even with reduced childcare many find it's not worth it.

Those who do work can't rely on their partners to do any childcare as they can be sent away with very little notice. Recently my DH went to work on a Monday and text me at lunchtime to say he'd be home in 2 weeks (rare and strange circumstances, but not the first time he's been sent away with less than 24 hours notice) so even if I had a night shift, evening or weekend job I'd still need paid childcare.

We've lived here for 2.5 years now and there is one person within a 100 miles radius I'd leave my DD with. In 6 months we'll move somewhere else and it'll probably be at least a year, if not 2, before I become close enough friends with someone else. So for those 2 years there is no one to turn to, even in an emergency. When DH is away DD is with me 24/7 for up to 9 months. So I don't think it's unfair for the MOD to provide subsided childcare.

(I know a lot of the above is true of other jobs too, and I would hope they have similar schemes)

And I when DD starts school I won't be able to rely on DH to cover any of the holiday. Twice his leave has almost been cancelled (we have army house/kit insurance that pays out if we have to cancel a holiday due to his leave being taken away, so I'd assume it's not that rare) and he almost missed our wedding! Another time his leave was cancelled halfway through.

Why isn't it fair?

I hope you never find out about "get me home pay" offered by some .

Suck it up love, she's better off than you. Stop brig precious about it.

She's civillian staff, she is still employed by the MOD, just not in a trained soldier capacity, so she's entitled to the same benefits.

Gun we've lost our family holiday this year duento leave changes, I'm gutted DP will also miss DS's first birthday.

Quite a lot of private busineses/employers offer subsidised childcare as part of a salary package. And when I needed that sort of care, working in the public sector (a university) I paid market rates.

So it's nothing to do with taxpayers subsidy etc, but what employers think they need to do to keep good employees. Bravo to the MoD never thought I would ever write that!

You sound really butter and jealous.

This benefit is not 'too nice'. It's a good way to retain female staff - that's a good thing. Yes she may earn 30K but maybe she could earn more in the private sector (without nursery benefits). You are being ridiculous to expect the civil service to remove all employee benefits because they are funded by taxpayers.

I'm sure people have commented that teachers get far too long on holidays every year? Did that seem a fair criticism to you? Would you like all civil service jobs T&Cs to be set by knee jerk public reaction? Different jobs are rewarded in different ways.

Either way, it's nothing to do with you. Life isn't fair and not everything can be exactly equal.

I find all this moaning about the benefts that public sector workers get so odd.

The mind set shouldn't be:
"Take these benefits away from public sector workers because I don't get them in the private sector and it's not fair"

it should be
"Those benefits are great and we should be campaigning to get those too in the private sector."

It's not a race to the bottom. Workers should be trying to raise everyone up to the highest level, not bring everyone down to the lowest.

Ginger DH missed DDs first birthday too we moved it to another day, she didn't know any different! He almost missed her birth and first Christmas as well. It can be tough.

She'll be working alongside people in the military. I'm bloody glad you don't/didn't teach my kids as you don't seem to know the difference between their/there!

Both my husband and son are in the military. You have absolutely no idea the types of sacrifices they and we as a family make. DS1 has been working his arse of recently because his regiment has been very busy. A couple of Fridays ago he worked from 4:15am until 8:00pm. Then he had to work the weekend too. He was "lucky" last weekend, I've just had major surgery so they allowed him to come home, otherwise he would have had to have worked. He's working this weekend and the next 3. ATM it looks like Summer leave is cancelled. They don't get any extra money, there's no such thing as overtime pay!

I've never heard of school holidays being cancelled!

YAB massively U and you're coming across as a total whinger. As many PPs have said, some employers have better benefits packages than others.

Some of my friends have BUPA packages. Others get free gym memberships. In my old job I got 7 weeks paid leave and in the current one I only get five.

Stop moaning and get a job with an employer who has a subsidised nursery.

If you think it's not fair, what do you think should happen? It should be taken away from her, or other employers should do the same?

I think you're saying the latter, are you? I don't understand people who say things like I don't have X so other people shouldn't have it either. Surely it should be X sounds really great, that person is really lucky to have it, I wish I could have it too, I wonder if there's any way to get it.

Never got a penny, not even any state subsidy in my day, nor even 6 weeks at 90% pay! And I was self employed with the twins so taking business calls the day after they arrived. Life isn't fair. You just have to work hard and get on with it.

the nursery at DP camp relies on donations of toys for the nursery, they also ran a fundraiser to do the garden up so the children can play in it.

like others have said, it a a service more than a profit making business

YABU. I completely agree with Fenella. It baffles me why people who are jealous of others want the other person to lose out to make things "fair", rather than try to get the same/equivalent for themselves. Or think about where, in their own life, they are better off than others.

While jealousy is a normal human emotion, it is not good to feed it IME. It also makes us ripe for exploitation. Think about it: remember at the start of the recession when the government were deliberately sowing seeds of discontent by going on about how public servants get "gold-plated pensions", while all the poor private sector workers were getting less? Without making the point that public sector wages are often lower than private sector ones, so the private sector workers were often not losing out overall? It struck me then how many people wanted public sector pensions to fall, rather than start to ask their own employer why their pension provision was so stingy. The government, and private sector employers, must have been delighted. But the overall effect is that everyone becomes worse off -except a few shareholders, perhaps.

Off topic slightly, but I raise the above to make a point. Why should your friend lose an advantage because you don't have it too? I bet her life has its share of other difficulties. OP, I get that you would like to have the same advantage as your friend, and that's understandable. But if so, why not get involved in campaigning for affordable childcare? Why not ask your own employer to do more, e.g. a voucher scheme? Rather than waste time and energy making yourself miserable brooding over what someone else has that you do not. Unless you are a billionaire, there will always be somebody you can point to and fret about how unfair it is that they have more. You will be permanently miserable if you don't stop worrying about this.

Another here who is astounded at the bitter/jealous note in your postings.

Her working in the Public Sector or even as a non combatant in the MoD is utterly irrelevant, she has something you do not and, rather than accepting that she has a job where her employers are more generous you just pop off on an old and tired tirade!

Why not use that energy in campaigning for better childcare everywhere, or just in your own job? Put your negativity to good use.

As others have said, you have the power to get rid of your own misery, you just have to want to be a nicer/happier person.

When I worked for a Big 4 we had:

• subsidised travel and interest free loans to buy season tickets
• discounted gym
• discounted car lease
• discounted childcare

etc etc etc

The private sector can look after its own very well should it choose to...is that a bit 'too nice' or is that ok as private sector?

We're about to put DS into a MOD nursery and we have no connections to the forces at all. We didn't realise when we went to look round it, it was the best we saw and luckily they have to fill 10% of places with civilians to get their local authority funding. The reduced fees came as a very pleasant surprise. It isn't 'fair' but nor is the fact my DP's job is flexible so we'll only be sending DS four days a week anyway, that we live sufficiently far out of London that fees are reduced anyway etc etc. Very little in life is 'fair' - it's mostly just circumstances that sometimes work in one person's favour or not. You're probably 'luckier' than your friend in lots of ways that are perhaps less obviously quantifiable!

What annoys me is that there's often this public sector bashing so that there's an expectation that public sector salaries and benefits must be as low as possible because they are funded by 'hard working people'.

We expect the public service to deliver critical services for us on increasingly less money and to defend those services against future cuts so that we can have healthcare/education/roads without holes in/science etc.

If you want good public services you need good staff. Reduce the salaries and benefits and you will not get good staff as you can't offer a competitive package.