To support DS to break school rules?

[Woffa]

My DS's secondary school has issued a written ban on sixth formers driving to school and parking in the local roads nearby (even though there are no double yellow lines etc) to avoid upsetting the residents.
The bus fare for DS is expensive and the saving helps pay for his insurance.

AIBU to support him in ignoring the ban?

*Fact not act.

That happens a lot in schools/colleges. But, as I tried to explain a lot earlier there are often underlying reasons why.

I don't necessarily think this rule is in any way a good idea, but I don't know the background to the local situation, how many other 'solutions' the school has tried or what their long term goals are. As I said yesterday, this could be a hoop they have to jump through in order to get a better solution, I don't know...

BUT I do know that such things can be part of the contract a student has with a school/college and I do know how they are dealt with in house. I do this day in day out (not about parking but many other seemingly ridiculous rules that few people see the point of). No one would expect this to work, students will still drive to school, but the school will not actively police it (if they are sensible they will leave that to the angry residents), any student who gets reported will be dealt with in the usual manner and nothing will come of it unless the student is a complete idiot and repeatedly annoys the same local resident.

Yes, you said. And you are still wrong. Give. It. Up.

My response was to Dowser, not Squallop who may not have read my posts yesterday, where I explained how such a rule could exist!

madrelco, I can't say this any more politely, I am not wrong. The reasoning behind this rule may be, but I am not.

You can continue to disagree as much as you like, I still will not be wrong in what I have posted. I know, it is my job to know.

I am not supporting the rule, just trying to explain why a school may have tried to impose it. Why they may feel their hands are tied, why there might be a bigger picture.

You can continue to ignore that if you like. But it won't make me wrong!

It's your job to know? And yet you can't understand that they have no jurisdiction to make such a rule?

The reasoning behind this rule does not matter. Your opinion on it does not matter. Your job does not matter. The school can make whatever rules they like, however they simply cannot enforce this one.
And since you can't show us any example of any school being successful in enforcing such a rule, I'm going to say you know it too.

Home/school contracts are unenforceable in state maintained schools. Certainly schools are entitled to have rules and to take action to enforce them, and I can see the sense in discouraging students from driving, both for environmental reasons and to avoid pissing off the neighbours. But really it makes much more sense to leave it at discouragement, because having an unenforceable rule weakens discipline.

I have not claimed that any have, nor that I think it is reasonable!

I am not sure why my job does not matter, without wanting to give too much information my job is to check the viability of disciplinary actions and the consistent and fair application of such rules. So, when I say I know I say it from a position of some certainty, certainly more than some of the posters here.

My job also includes explaining such rules and remaining patient when people can't get their heads around a world that does not work how they want it to. A skill I am using right now

Icimoi, I agree. Any unenforceable rue is ridiculous, I have said so.

I was trying to find out how the rules differ between schools, VI forms and FE colleges. I know that you are right re schools, then again there would be no issue in a school

I know I am right re FE colleges, they could do this if they wanted to (though it would still be a daft rule). The grey area seems to be in the type of VI form. But now I can't be bothered, the descent into pettiness has exhausted my patience and willingness to explain another perspective/possible reasons.

I just hope that OP gets her DSs situation sorted.

Squallop, there you make all sorts of assumptions, all faulty.

Why be so nasty? Why the ridiculous troll accusation?

Well if you arent a troll then why peddle the lies about rules which neither exist nationwide or are unenforceable instead of patronising the OP about some fake rules governing parking on the public highway?

And if you'd read what I wrote properly, none of my assumptions are faulty.

You and Charis made the claims about these so-called parking punitive measures. So either you put your money where your mouth is and prove us all wrong, or quit peddling this overt crap.

You're not a martyr so please get off your soapbox and stop acting like one.

You're ill informed and simply too stupid/proud to admit it.

Obviously there is an issue in a school, LazyLouLou. They have sixth forms, you know, and the DfE guidance applies directly to sixth forms in schools.

In essence state maintained colleges are subject to the same guidance as schools: this says that they must have regard to the DfE guidance on exclusions, and in legal terms that means they have to follow it unless they have a very good reason for not doing so.

Therefore maintained schools, sixth form or FE colleges cannot permanently exclude a pupil for driving to school or college.

Thats your job? Says a lot. Just another box ticking, form filling jobsworth that is wasting time on such nonsense. And apparently, doing it very badly.

No school can control parking on public roads. If you are telling them they can, you should be fired.

Quote from Woffa

As far as what we should do about it I think a compromise of parking a few roads away is probably the way to go. Ds doesn't want to talk to the school about it (or for me to try to galvanise other parents into action) until after UCAS references are written in case he's seen as being difficult.

I see where he is coming from but we / he should not live in fear. Standing up for ones rights should not make a person appear to be difficult. He's already applying internal sanctions ( god I hate that word) to himself. Controlling and limiting his own behaviour ' through fear of what might happen'.

He and his peers should be encouraged to speak up and it's got to start somewhere before they are totally crushedby the system.

It's a good way to sharpen his negotiating skills ...all very relevant in today's workplace.

To me that's would be the best outcome for this sorry saga. I certainly would not see him as difficult. Far from it he and his peers would earn my respect if I was the head and the board of governors for actually having the courage to speak up.

We are not meant to fit in....we are meant to stand out!

madreloco - spot on!

Well said.

I just find it stunning that those on this thread who claim to be involved in education can be so uneducated when it comes to who has jurisdiction over public roads.

Given that these folk cant/wont/refuse to bring forth any evidence to back up their BS, perhaps they can answer one simply question:

Can any educational institution in the UK police/enforce their own made up rules on the public carriageway/highway?

The smart amongst us know the answer....

If it were me, OP, I would get DS to look for a driveway that seems quiet and approach a few houses and ask them permission to park outside or look at that site parkonmydrive - and offer a token amount of money to do so. explaining that he's a courteous 17 y/o only trying to pass his A levels and that he'd only be parked there between school hours during term time for another x terms

I can only repeat, why so nasty? I won't give you any examples from where I work, why should I... and troll hunting is still frowned upon here. I am not going to post anything that could identify me or my workplace and your persistent requests for data I have already said I do not have, for a rule I have already said I do not think is enforceable, is ridiculous.

You are getting het up about something you have not fully understood! And yes, I am a box ticking, fun sucking, paper pusher (amongst other jobs). That is how the place ensures it gets continued funding. If you have a problem with that go shout at your MP. I am sure most FE staff would support anything that reduces the ridiculous inflexibilities we work within.

Icimoi, I meant that a school would have no driving issues, due to the age of its students. Humour fail, obviously!

FE colleges are in the independent sector, different funding stream (and so different rules) and each one is as different form any other as chalk is to cheese. Some VI forms are not in school grounds, not attached to schools, which changes some of their funding and so their governances. But as I do not work in one and can't be arsed to look up stuff for those who keep shouting crap, I have already agreed things would be different. And then you have the Academies, yet more differences.

I suppose my initial point, which is now well lost, buried under all the hissy fitting, is that things are changing. All schools and colleges have to do so much more than teach these days. It is no surprise to me that some Board is making such daft decisions (how many more times will I have to say that?). But it is a sign that relationships between schools/colleges and their immediate neighbourhoods are still changing... and all sides are becoming far less tolerant of each other.

No one is being nasty. You are copping out and not for the first time either.

And if you cant post non-identifying info to support your ludicrous claims about schools/parking/enforcement, then you shouldn't be claiming it in the first place when you cant back it up.

Pretty evident who the troll is here - particularly when you are (continuously) taking the thread off at a tangent about funding, board decisions and other claptrap that has sweet fuck all to do with the OP, her son and his school making up rules about parking that they know they cannot enforce.

All schools and colleges have to do so much more than teach these days.

Patrolling the highways and controlling parking is not one of these things. And frankly, they need to be doing a whole lot less of the other things and a lot more of the actual teaching, perhaps then they wouldn't have such embarrassing educational results on the world stage.
Less money on silly jobs like yours and more on teaching resources wouldn't go amiss, perhaps then more of you might understand what schools can do and what they can't.

Icimoi, I meant that a school would have no driving issues, due to the age of its students. Humour fail, obviously!

Well yes, LazyLou, that's what I thought you meant. I don't get why you think no school ever has pupils over the age of 16? Hundreds, if not thousands, of secondary schools extend to years 12 and 13.

Why do you think FE colleges are all independent? Some are, if they are fee paying or academies, but otherwise if they are funded through central government or local authorities they are not independent. I linked above to government guidance which specifically said that they are subject to the same rules on exclusions and school discipline as maintained schools unless they can produce a good reason not to be: do you accept that that is the case?

Academies and free schools are subject to funding agreements with the DfE, all of which require them to comply with the same laws and guidance as state schools with regard to discipline and exclusions.

However, can I ask that people lay off LazyLou? Her posts don't come over to me as putting her remotely in the same category as Charis, albeit that she has made some mistakes about the legal status of FE and sixth form colleges and their rules, and she is correct in saying that schools can and do impose rules about conduct off the premises, e.g. about good behaviour on public transport when wearing uniform. She does agree that imposing this particular rule is pointless. Some of the recent posts are needlessly aggressive.

Woffa its a shame your son doesn't feel able to talk to school about it. I don't think discussing something should be seen as being difficult. Don't they have a school council or something similar. One of mine was Chair of school council when they were 10 (primary school obviously) and was very nervous about conducting Head and Governors on a tour of girls toilets and changing facilities. For some reason the boys had been updated and the girls hadn't. The tour was done and she explained their case and it was agreed that in the next financial year money would be found for the project. It was actually too late to benefit her but was a great lesson and I don't think it marked her as a trouble maker but as a young girl with a reasonable argument, they explained they couldn't do anything immediately but made her a promise they kept. I think it was a great lesson for her.

I would have thought it would be positive if your son went to the Head and said something like, "I know this is causing problems, I realise there are road safety concerns, residents who are finding this difficult (maybe elderly who find it difficult to walk two streets away to park) but if we said no parking within x distance or no parking in streets x y and z, can we agree to parking." I know as a senior manager in a different type of organisation I loved people who came to me with positive suggestions. To me he would come across as a mature young man, a credit to his school. Obviously if he went and sai, "You have no fucking right to tell me where I can park." the Head might be less impressed.

Well said granny - how refreshing to hear a voice of reason after so much rudeness and aggression!

There's assertive and there's aggressive and granny gave a good example of assertiveness.

Thing is, if he and you don't do anything you'll both feel angry and resentful and that's not a good place to be.

And it's all agood life lesson for him.