To expect doctors to have a decent bedside manner?

[bluejeanswhiteshirt]

I took my 7 month old DD to see an out of hours GP at the hospital last night. I'm fully aware that they are busy and tired etc. but she was unbelievably grumpy and stern looking and it was obvious she didn't want to be there.

She checked DD over and was very firm when checking her over and moving her head into position (not rough but could have been more gentle) and there was just no bedside manner there at all. Is this normal in your experience??

DD was trying to eat the torch she was shining in her mouth and moving her head so she had to hold her still which is understandable. If there had been a couple of smiles and a friendlier tone I would have been happier but she did the job we wanted her to do so all is good.

I remember feeling so so ill that I thought I was dieing slowly. I managed to call our of hours doctor she came to my home to find me doubled up in pain. She had an evening dress on and told me very sternly I had interrupted her evening out and to stop over reacting take two paracetamol then she left. Turns out that I had an acute appendicitus and was rushed into surgery the next day.
Some doctors can be very lax at bedside manners hopefully these are in the minority. Hope your dd is feeling better now

I've met far more rude, awkward ones than nice ones.. At a time when you want to see someone efficient but friendly/warm! I've been told it's because most people who study medicine have to dedicate all their time to studying so no time to develop social skills.. Also maybe a bit socially awkward because they're so intelligent. That's coming from my FIL who was a doctor.

I have excellent bedside skills, wouldn't get much private practice without it. Besides, being reassuring and empathetic as a doctor is part and parcel of the job, it's not optional.

To be fair in all my years nursing I met far far nicer doctors and nurses than not.

It's not negotiable or an add on.

It's a huge part of the job.

A kind, gentle reassuring nurse/doctor is essential.

If you can't get that part right it's time to change profession.

You can be running around like a blue arse fly but you can do it with a smile on your face and a quick shoulder pat or hug or reassuring nod takes a second.

YANBU. But they sometimes don't. I was seen by a doctor the other day who took a look at my stomach and his first reaction was a somewhat horrified "What's that?" when looking at my stretch marks. I would have thought he had seen other women with flabby stretchmarked bellies before, but no, perhaps I was the first

I work with doctors (lots of them). Prior to this I thought doctors on the whole were fine upstanding citizens whose integrity and professionalism were beyond reproach. Unfortunately my experience is that there are excellent ones who are exactly that, but on the whole I have found the collective arrogance and general disregard for patients (and fellow staff) to be shocking. It makes me very sad. On the plus side, I am far more comfortable challenging bad attitude and medical advice than I was before.

Patients are at the core of what they do, and if they can't do their work with respect and basic courtesy towards their patients then they shouldn't be working with them. Simple as.

It is very important to be polite, kind and considerate to people.

But sometimes there is a balance to be struck with getting a job done properly. The paediatrician who was struck off for missing Peter Connelly's injuries documented that she had not undressed him to examine him thoroughly because he was crying and not co-operative.

When examining a 7 month old baby they are not going to co-operate with you as a stranger doing stuff to them however kind and polite you are so sometimes you will need to be a bit firm and get it over with quick.

DS had to have an LP when he was only 3 weeks old. The nurse told me that I could choose to be there but in her experience it would be better not and she promised me she'd take great care of him and bring him back quickly. I think she was absolutely right. There is no good way to take blood or do any invasive procedure on a baby apart from quickly and efficiently.

She should have explained better to you what she was doing but she can't treat DD like china.

Nah, some of them understand that good communication and empathy is important, and others either don't or think they're above all that because they're important. That's all there is to it.

Thank you, Mrs D.
I can't pretend all doctors are perfect, but thought this might give some insight:
A few years ago my DF was blue lighted into hospital and we rushed in. It was a Saturday night and he was unconscious in A&E. Dad had multiple medical issues, paranoid delusions and dementia. He was very ill and we sat by his bed as the staff dealt with a number of very difficult patients.
One in particular was very abusive to the nurses. The consultant on duty was a very tall, well built man and he went up to this man and told him in no uncertain terms that if he didn't stop abusing the nurses then he would personally throw him out.
And then he came over to us, knelt down beside my DM, took hold of her hand and explained that it was unlikely my DF would survive the night. He was so considerate and kind and was clearly upset.
I'll never forget how he had to be able to deal with two such different and difficult situations, how he was looking out for his staff and the empathy he showed to our family.
Credit where credit is due.

That was her phrase upthread.

Ok I'm not a paediatrician but I still think an ill, very young baby being seen by a non-specialist in A&E with no access to a play therapist or anything is going to have an uphill job to get a thorough examination done with no tears.

If I've had to take mine to the GP at that age I hold them tight whilst the looking in ears and throat bit gets done, accept they will cry and cuddle them afterwards.

The above was a response to the theory that doctors don't have time to acquire communication skills. Took ages for post to go through for some reason.

MrsD I had said this too - a child treated with kindness will surely be more likely to comply with treatment because they will feel safer. Thus making the task quicker and easier for the practitioner.

She didn't cry thankfully, she handled it very well. I think I've been too harsh on the doctor because she did do her job properly, I just don't think she knew how to communicate with babies very well. A newborn went in after us so I'd be interested to see how she handled that one!

No mamadoc to be a competent doctor you need to be both professionally and socially skilled.

It's not rocket science.

It's essential.

Did you actually need to see the out of hours GP?

They do get (understandably) brusque if people take the piss. I'm an Optometrist, I work occasionally in A&E and it is quite irritating (and an enormous waste of public funds) if you get patients with non-urgernt complaints coming in.

And even if you have to be physically firm to get a procedure done, you can still explain what you're doing and you can still talk in a reassuring tone. None of that has to compromise the examination.

I don't think it's possible to take the piss when it comes to a young baby's health is it? But yes, it was necessary and I wouldn't have been comfortable waiting until Monday morning.

Karolann That's very disappointing to hear. Most sensible medical professionals know that parents bring kids in out of genuine worry. No one wants to spend hours in A&E for the lolz.

And as for wasting public funds, I've seen pointless, wasteful and inefficient things go on as part of accepted internal procedure that waste more public money than a patient coming to A&E could ever do.

I'm not even going to comment on wasting public funds! The amount of people going in there in the early hours of Sunday morning after being in drunken brawls or god knows what else makes me feel a little less guilty about ensuring my baby is OK and 'wasting' money.

I have never said that you don't need social as well as professional skills. Yes, I do think both are essential. I can't see any post where I said otherwise.

In my first post I said that the Dr should have explained to the mum better what she was doing.

But I still think that even with really excellent communication skills you are not necessarily going to get an ill, 7 month old baby just to co-operate easily with an examination.

It seemed to me there was some mismatch of expectation in this scenario. The OP did say that she was used to treating her baby 'like china'. I was trying to explain, I guess, that a degree of firmness was likely necessary to thoroughly exclude serious illness.

Its a bit much to conclude from from one GP OOH consultation where a Dr failed to explain properly her examination that most Drs are arrogant sods who don't think patients or communicating with patients matters. That seems to be what lots of people on this thread think.

And by the way Sometimes it is fairly close to rocket science actually:

A lot of stuff is going on in that consultation. Gathering the right information thoroughly but quickly from history, observation and examination. Running through differential diagnoses in your head, weighing up what's most likely. Formulating a plan for investigations and treatment.
Common things are common but you've got to be careful not to miss something serious. Ill babies can deteriorate quickly and no-one wants to miss eg meningitis.

To do all that and ensure that your communication is reassuring and hits the right tone isn't always easy.

Then add in that the Dr has maybe 10mins and you have no idea what went on in the last consultation or will go on in the next one.

It's not rocket science... Well no it's not but it is a bloody hard job.

The bit that confuses me is that you said that the doctor was trying to hold your baby's head still whilst looking in the mouth? Did the doctor not explain to you how to hold your kid? Because if not, then that was probably a large part of the problem. Almost impossible for the doctor to do the hold and the look as well....

(For ears - snuggled sideways on your lap, one arm firmly holding their body/arms against you, the other hand firmly holding their head, so they can't jump and thus get accidentally jabbed in the ear by the otoscope. For throat - sitting with their back against your front, one arm firmly holding body and arms, the other hand pressing back against their forehead, to both keep their head still, and to tip their head back - improves odds of getting a good view on first attempt, and stops the kid jumping at the wrong moment, and getting accidentally jabbed in the throat by the tongue depressor. I tend to explain and use the spiel "your job to hang on, mine to be quick"...because getting it done fast is way kinder than poking around for a while. Oh, and always do the throat last...as however nice you are, the baby oddly enough tends to hate you after that bit, so you've lost the cooperation...)