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I should have the right to buy from my my to let landlord after 6 years here

533 replies

chocolatekatie · 17/05/2015 07:19

No government will ever do it as loads of them are into buy to let hence why they do all they can to prop up the bubble.

My landlord thinks he's some businessman doing me a favour by letting me live here. Actually he's the problem, he just had money so can afford to buy up property - push up the price and force people like me to rent.

OP posts:
Arsenic · 21/05/2015 23:05

So that's your recommendation?

Buy somewhere with wet rot?

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 23:07

My DC are still teens. I am worried about what they will do. Wet rot doesn't strike me as the answer, TBH. Not for them, not generally.

MysteryMan1 · 21/05/2015 23:09

No you shouldn't have the right to buy unless he wants to sell. At the market price of course.

It's a hard game but such is life.

JassyRadlett · 21/05/2015 23:10

Buy somewhere with wet rot?

In an area you'll never be able to leave, because you've bought a bottom-of-the-market property in a bottom-of-the-market area.

You'd better like the area.

TheChandler · 21/05/2015 23:23

So that's your recommendation?

Whats with this obsession with giving advice and recommendations on here? I'm not giving anyone advice or recommendations. I'm just raising possibilities in a discussion. If you want advice or recommendations, pay your chosen expert/s to give you them.

Wet rot was a gift in the property I bought. It meant other buyers were scared off and I got it for £20,000. A two bedroom semi. It was easy enough to treat, the experts cut it out and then treated it and replaced the wood, it was restricted to a small area, and I got a two free estimates on treating it which meant I got two free expert opinions before I bought it. It didn't even cost much.

The wet rot also meant the sellers had taken the floor up in one of the downstairs rooms, which put buyers off. When you actually considered it, away from all the hysteria about wet rot, it was a sensible financial purchase. I sold it 18 months later for many times what I paid for it, but would have been happy to live in it if I hadn't needed the deposit for my next property. It was a nice house.

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 23:35

This is "raising possibilities"? It reads like a "do EXACTLY what I did" harangue.

TheChandler · 22/05/2015 00:28

Dearie me Arsenic. Are you really that easily led? If someone describes some event in their life, you immediately feel you should copy them? Isn't that terribly confusing?

Arsenic · 22/05/2015 00:33

I don't think I commented on the likelihood of anyone finding your lengthy outpourings helpful Chandler.

A deliberate omission. I was being polite.

LotusLight · 22/05/2015 06:39

People don't want to be helped which is great news for the strivers, albeit it frustrating and it leaves the way wide open to us to buy. People won't compromise and accept the suffering those of us who now do have a home went through - well ultimately the jam tomorrows win out and those sitting there moaning wanting only the perfect house are stabbing themselves in the foot. Quite a lot of people just look at reasons not to do things rather than seize the opportunities that there are.

"So what about your son who is a postman? He still needs a roof over his head. Surely you would help your children regardless of life choices they make." At the moment he is my au pair, collects the boys from school each day and cooks their dinner etc I am not about to throw him on the streets but there is no way he would get more cash or more inheritance just because he chose a low paid job. He has no interest in money. I sent him details of a property on Orkney last night actually. I do think he should buy somewhere even if it's not here so he has somewhere to retreat to on the planet.

Right back to work. I started at 6am.

JassyRadlett · 22/05/2015 07:10

Lotus - please please please, can we survive Friday without Lewis Carroll?

Arsenic · 22/05/2015 07:48

I think the needle's got stuck.

But there's clearly a desperate appeal for MNers to send her a comfort parcel of jam in there somewhere.

You'll need to give us a clue which far-flung suburb you've been forced to flee to Lotus. I'm sure someone will bring you emergency conserve rations in your hour of need.

Thymeout · 22/05/2015 08:44

Don't knock the suburbs! Fast trains from Bromley South to Victoria 12-15 minutes. A lot of people prefer the suburbs for bringing up a family. I'm guessing Lotus is in Richmond or Twickenham. (And I must admit I'm beginning to develop a soft spot for her ds.)

Arsenic - I do think you're being unduly negative over Chandler's properties. People would have said the same about Brixton and Catford only a few years ago.

Arsenic · 22/05/2015 08:50

I like the suburbs myself (some of them) but Lotus seems to feel aggrieved (even though I suspect you are correct about it being RoT Grin ).

Have you been to Ilford Lane Thyme? It will never be the next Brixton. I can walk to Westminster from Brixton, for a start.

Certain outlying boroughs are becoming HMO, subdivision, bed-in-a-shed land. I'd have kittens if the DC managed to buy a bijou slum dwelling in Ilford or Ealing.

notauniquename · 22/05/2015 08:51

I'd favour a right of citizens to buy empty state property in cities for conversion to housing.
That's just crazy, how are people who can't save up a deposit of £20k going to be able to save the much greater deposit for a larger public building, or pay for builders to convert the property!?

have a look here: www.independent.co.uk/property/house-and-home/property/britain-is-suffering-from-a-housing-crisis--who-is-to-blame-and-how-can-we-fix-it-9113329.html

the average house is more than 5 times the average salary, rents are so high that it's taking up around 20% of most budgets, (though I've seen people in much worse)
In fact you spoke of a mythical couple earning 25k (i'll increase that to 27k as that's the national average)
www.mindthemoney.co.uk/average-uk-wage-is-27000-so-how-does-your-salary-compare/

(that means a take home of 21k)
and rents of around £1000 per month.

That's over half of a single persons wages being spent on rent payments alone. (57%)
for a couple it's over 28%

You see, what you are missing is that the problem isn't that young people are too stupid to realise that there is more to life than zone 2 (and I don't live in London anyway), the problem is that houses are too expensive.

That's true in London, it's in the south east, it's true in the south west, and it's true in Oxford and surrounding areas (so the south), it is true across most areas of the UK (especially compared to wages) there is less of a squeeze in the north, but on average it's still broadly true that compared to wages, houses are too expensive!

That houses are too expensive is that there is not enough of them, and as said before the only real answer is build more. - though be aware as a social housing project that probably means higher taxes, and it means that your investment properties will be devalued, and that you'll probably make a loss on rental income, and find it harder to sell because there will be less demand.

People don't want to be helped which is great news for the strivers, albeit it frustrating and it leaves the way wide open to us to buy. People won't compromise and accept the suffering those of us who now do have a home went through
I'd be happy to suffer to save to buy a house. indeed I AM suffering in order to buy a house.
but you know I'm suffering longer and harder than you had to! (and that's because of my life choices)

Arsenic · 22/05/2015 08:54

indeed I AM suffering in order to buy a house.
but you know I'm suffering longer and harder than you had to! (and that's because of my life choices)

Let's not forget Lotus bought as a FTB in early/mid 1980s.

The 'life choice' of being born circa 1960 helped her a good deal.

HoneyDragon · 22/05/2015 09:08

We could all just commandeer a rocket and live on planet Lotus. It seems nice and fluffy, but the air is clearly a bit thin.

notauniquename · 22/05/2015 09:11

TheChandler, you're posting up links to overpriced flats, with auction guide prices in the range of hundreds of thousands, that need tens of thousands of work done on them. (and you know we're still talking about people who currently are handing existing landlords a quarter of what they earn before they are able to eat or wear clothes etc.) or pay any bills.

of course you're also ignoring facts (because that plays nicely into your false argument that all these people are just lazy).

When you buy something at auction, you need to pay for it then.
(you know that you can't use a mortgage to buy an auction property because you can't get a survey done etc until after it is yours and you own it! -you'd be stupid to go to an auction with a mortgage in principal and start bidding, because you don't know what the bank will determine the value of the house at, you could end up with a load of fees and no house!)

I can tell you (as a renter) if I had just over a hundred thousand pounds burning a hole in my back pocket, there is a good chance that I'd not be looking for 2 bed hovels on an industrial estate in Essex. Instead I'd get a home that I could stay in (forever) using my 100k cash as a 50% or 30% deposit!

*In an area you'll never be able to leave, because you've bought a bottom-of-the-market property in a bottom-of-the-market area.

You'd better like the area.*

I disagree, if we leave the housing market to rot as it is, (with 100,000 shortfall on houses being built compared to demand per year) then there will always be some poor sod who needs to get that first step on the ladder.

Wet rot was a gift in the property I bought. It meant other buyers were scared off and I got it for £20,000.
ok, this tells me a couple of things.
firstly you bought it a long time ago.
secondly, the restrictions on your mortgage were a lot less than today.

aside from the huge demand from people such as yourself who are able to do this, pushing up the price, it's also not the same as your experience at all, you've just said that you never lived in the house.

and the house was cheaper.

which basically means what you're saying is.

"Things were easier in my time, with a bit of hard work and sacrifice I was able to buy, I kept living where I rented (or in another house you had?) which we invested in the repairs for that house, then we sold it to fund a bigger purchase"

now, since you're so handy on right move.
Look at your wages.
Look at your bills.
and how much money you have.
now imagine that you're paying rent at nearly a thousand pounds a month.
now your 20k flat is probably between 100k and 200k, so your mortgage would be knocking on a thousand pounds a month... (so that's immediately almost 2k gone before bills on rent + mortgage)

is what you did possible today? even on what you earn and with your rental property incomes? can you just magically find another thousand pounds a month every month, and more money to complete work for an undefined period of time?

What's that? no?
or are you going to come up with some other bull?

face it, whilst you are loath to admit it.
you had a shit load of luck.
Possibly what you have isn't even equal luck and hard work.
now you are sitting and judging others to be lazy whingers because they don't have the same luck as you?! pointing people at houses that you think are somehow magically affordable.

HoneyDragon · 22/05/2015 09:12

I've just gone through the new mortgage criteria as I'm buying now .... And despite having a substantial amount of jam and a credit file showing well looked after jam, and proof that we have made provision for future jam, we were still nearly declined.

LotusLight · 22/05/2015 09:14

There is a free pass to planet Lotus if people take my advice. I don't hoard the wisdom to myself. I spread it around.

(NW not S London by the way)

The postman son like all the children is very interesting. I have never had set paths for any of the chidlren and what a dull family it would be if everyone shared the same political views.

The problem within the M25 (not in most other places) on housing is lack of demand. We all agree that. If anyone is allowed to buy unused state land to convert to housing even if they then sell on or let out that increases the n7umber of available properties which is the big problem. It is does not matter if I bought the 10 years unused London lavatory to convert to a flat which I wanted to if I am not a first time buyer. That is still an extra property available to someone. Ditto all those many unused state properties littering London and many cities.

HoneyDragon · 22/05/2015 09:15

That's not wisdom.

How do you suggest the 95% mortgage is obtained?

notauniquename · 22/05/2015 09:18

We've talked about the policy issues and most of us have no control over them.

And the consensus to shrug and say have you though about buying here or here seems like you're just happy for it to continue?! - and why wouldn't you, the current situation actually benefits you as landlords and as people who can afford to buy in an over priced market.

And funnily enough protecting people such as yourself is exactly why the government can't just raise interest rates to slow the rise of house prices. (e.g. luck continues to smile on you because plenty of people are over extended and ill-equipped to deal with a large rise in interest rates. through no hard work of your own, conditions continue to be favourable to you.)

Right back to work. I started at 6am.
Firstly, so do lots of postmen (in fact many start before then), and you already appeared to have wrote them off as under achievers, not worth of your help even when they are your own kids!

Secondly, that you started at 6am is of no consequence, the real question would be what time you finish if you're trying to prove how hard working you are. -note: I don't really care when you finish, just pointing out ('yet another' problem with the holier than thou arguments and attitudes being displayed here)

At the moment he is my au pair, collects the boys from school each day and cooks their dinner etc
that's more interesting, and implies less hard working, more you know being dishonestly using a person, claiming your own son has the same status as a live in foreign child care worker, with special visa status to live inside a country to learn a language? (actually lets be fair, you didn't mean he's a foreign national I'm just being silly.)

I assume you pay him the market rate for his duties as an Au-pair? (you know free lodging plus free food plus a couple of hundred a month? on top of his postman's job? -I really suspect not, your disdain of him, and obvious lack of respect for anyone or anything you believe is beneath you is painfully obvious)

he's onto a good deal there:
20k salary.
no rent (effective 12k pay rise there alone.)
no council tax (1k)
no water bills 0.5k
no food (~4k a year?)
no gas of electric bills (1k)
plus his wage as a child carer (+2 - 3k) (that's around 41 - 42k)
(and all those pay rises are after tax equivalents)

except he's probably not, I suspect that you actually charge him rent.
so he's not really your Au-pair more like a child that you put upon.
more like you're stealing his "today jam" so that you can have double rations as you went without in the past.

I am not about to throw him on the streets but there is no way he would get more cash or more inheritance just because he chose a low paid job
though presumably you're thinking of cash gifting him 10k towards buying a house and helping with the deposit (another 10k or so?) same as you did with your other kid? (that's getting on for a 1/4 of some little one bed flats.)

JassyRadlett · 22/05/2015 10:02

I disagree, if we leave the housing market to rot as it is, (with 100,000 shortfall on houses being built compared to demand per year) then there will always be some poor sod who needs to get that first step on the ladder.

I think I wasn't clear - I don't think we should leave the housing market to rot at all. But the advice to buy the cheapest possible property in the worst possible area isn't always good advice because the first step can be a trap. Fine if you're happy to keep living in that area, but the differential between different housing sizes and types has grown more quickly in recent years even than house prices. If you buy in Ilford in the hopes it will help you to buy a larger place somewhere nicer, it could be a long long wait to gather enough equity.

Not saying that people won't (or shouldn't) do it - but I totally disagree with advice to buy somewhere that is for example too small for your family (eg a studio flat with a baby) if you're not willing to still be there in 5-10 years.

JassyRadlett · 22/05/2015 10:22

The problem within the M25 (not in most other places) on housing is lack of demand

That would be a nice change!

LotusLight · 22/05/2015 11:00

Um... not sure what we all really mean here. My postman son and I get on very well indeed. Yes, he's lucky I can house him. No one is suggesting life even in a communist utopia or even in North Korea will mean everyone has exactly the same. He and I are happy with the arrangements between us and he is not put upon or exploited. He knows I'd pay for any decent course he might want or advise on any other career but if Royal Mail is the thing for him good. He knows my advice is always to get enough exercise, life weights, be outside, in sunshine and eat good food in order to feel happy and his job ensures that actually.

Yes, I was happy to pay almost £1m of before tax income towards school fees, £30k a year for childcare etc etc and hours and hour and hours of time reading to them and cuddling them and breastfeeding them. Most of us want to help our children. that is a huge moral good. It is not a moral wrong. If you have a lot spare money which I don't compared to some there is a big issue of when not to give them so much they become idle so and sos on drugs who never do any work but I am not in that mega rich category so that's not an issue.

If we changed the law so that parents could not feed their children well or cuddle them or that we married someone who like us had a high IQ or the family work ethic is hard work or paid school fees or picked a better school than the local sink comp or got our son a job down the pit like his favour or all the many many ways parents help children which mean one child can buy a property and the other cannot, then you might resolve the imbalance between a parent who can hand over £5k to help with a deposit and one that cannot.

We used to have a tax called "capital transfer tax" in the UK i.e. we taxed gifts, not just inheritance at death but gifts. You can understand that a socialist system keen to stop inherited wealth would also tax gifts. We got rid of that thankfully but we could certainly legislate to bring it back. CTT went up to 75% for some life and indeed death transfers.

If people don't want to buy somewhere much too small then go off and keep renting but it's a bad bad bad decision and you will be on threads like this in 10 years time too old to borrow.

(yes lack of supply not demand of course....)

I would still like to find a way to get nota able to buy somewhere.

notauniquename · 22/05/2015 11:58

If you have a lot spare money which I don't compared to some there is a big issue of when not to give them so much they become idle so and sos on drugs who never do any work but I am not in that mega rich category so that's not an issue.
as a side story I saw a friend a few months ago, (who had moved away), and actually made friends with one person like that.
essentially all he talked about was the places he'd gone, and stayed, and how nice they were, all off the work of his incredibly well off parents. and most of his speech was slurred, and hard to understand. from what I understand he spends most of his life still living at home, and living a high life of travel and fancy toys at his parents expense, working in the easiest jobs he can find in order to earn some small amount of money which is immediately spent on drink and or drugs. (his brother was a lawyer)
which just goes to show that even with the best breeding and opportunity (which I called luck) without hard work it is incredibly easy to waste that.

Um... not sure what we all really mean here.

let me spell it out.

You claim that your son is a postman only earning 20k (which is almost twice national minimum wage anyway), and thus not worth of receiving multiple 5 figure cash gifts to pay his stamp duty, and to help with a deposit, like your other kids, (who are presumably more driven by money?)

When I said abut the difference in helping children, I wasn't talking about the inequality between yourself, and someone currently in social housing earning minimum wage being unable to cash gift a deposit, I was talking specifically about the difference in helping your own children. -and wondering why that was? (are you scared that your postman son will become a lazy drug addict if you help him too much?) - how does this compare with someone say like Paul Flowers, who presumably worked very hard to become chief exec of a bank. (and so would have been more than worth of these five figure cash gifts if he were your child), and yet was a massive drug addict? (cocaine, ketamine, methamphetamine etc)
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/07/co-op-bank-paul-flowers-court-drug-charges

I wondered why you saw fit to help one of your children with help in deposits and paying stamp duty for them. and yet at the same time refuse help to another child.

Whilst we have no (either official, or personal "lotus") definition of hard work, I suspect that your book smart daughter, like you probably works hard, in the same way that I work hard, reading, and pressing keys on a computer in the right order.
Your son on the other hand also works hard, carrying a heavy mail bag and walking places, in all weathers. - but for some reason you believe that remuneration is the only indicator of "how hard" work is.

I also questioned your term Au-Pair like to describe your child collecting (I would assume his very junior siblings from school)
a real Au-Pair is a young foreign person.

Their duty to you is to help with the kids, (i.e. collect them from school and cook a meal for the kids)

Your duty to them is to house them, and feed them, and pay them...

My point being that if you actually charge your son rent, it's more like having a live in servant than an Au-Pair.

-which is really weird that you'd treat one child to multiple five figure cash gifts, and another like an aupair, (and charge them rent for living with you?) and expect them to be grateful, whilst you also worried that if you gave them too much that they might turn to drugs?

I'm not really sure what you meant about changing the law so that people could not feed their children? I'm not even sure where you got the thought from!?

I would still like to find a way to get nota able to buy somewhere.
I'm not really the problem. given as I am from a "not uncomfortable" background.
as discussed, I have high personal debts caused by my personal life choices.
however some of my personal life choices (like yours) were to save what I could, when I could this has undeniably helped me... however, perhaps against your jam tomorrow philosophy I also borrowed money.
Specifically I borrowed significantly at two points in my life, the first was whilst I was in university, - because my parents couldn't afford to spend millions on my education. so instead I took a student loan to pay my fees, and I worked throughout university, I've no doubt that this affected my education. but you do with what you've got.
I don't regret this borrowing, (either student loan or overdraft) because this has lead to me earning higher wages now.

The second point in my life I borrowed significantly was in order to send my child to day care/nursery, arguably this was done so that neither myself, nor my ex had to quit work, or take a long hiatus, which (as numerous threads on here point out) make ever getting back into a reasonably paid job difficult.

As I said, for the past few years I've been paying off over a thousand pounds a month from those debts. (in addition to renting privately) so (in three to four years according to my spreadsheet) when the remaining debts are paid off, I should only really need to spend the following three or four years continuing to live in "uncomfortable" accommodation whilst saving for a deposit. (essentially in a decade I'll be able to afford to buy. I'll be in my mid forties, but still perfectly able to get a 25 year mortgage with a view to retire at 70.)

The real issue isn't really people like me, who are already inside the top 25% of earners in the country. the real issue is those below that!

If people don't want to buy somewhere much too small
Those that can't even afford to buy these small places you speak of.

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