Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I should have the right to buy from my my to let landlord after 6 years here

533 replies

chocolatekatie · 17/05/2015 07:19

No government will ever do it as loads of them are into buy to let hence why they do all they can to prop up the bubble.

My landlord thinks he's some businessman doing me a favour by letting me live here. Actually he's the problem, he just had money so can afford to buy up property - push up the price and force people like me to rent.

OP posts:
LotusLight · 21/05/2015 13:53

That is why law is better than other sectors as students fight to win a place during their years as a student on law firms' and barrister "vacation schemes" which are PAID. You only get on them if you are good enough. The law firm will also pay all your law school fees and some support too (did for my daughter). It makes it much much fairer for the less well off than say journalism or fashion.

ReallyTired · 21/05/2015 14:01

LotusLight,
So what about your son who is a postman? He still needs a roof over his head. Surely you would help your children regardless of life choices they make.

Life is a mixture of luck and hard work.

LotusLight · 21/05/2015 14:05

You can pick at anyone's life and say there were elements of luck but if you go round saying oh woe is me there is point in trying because only luck wins the day then you never get anywhere. Yes I am lucky I don't have an IQ of 80 or no legs or that my parents had the sense to wait 12 years after they got together to have children until after they bought a house unlike some then I might not earn what I do but a lot more than luck comes into it.

Were my parents lucky to pass the 11+ exam in the 30s in the NE of England?

Someone is saying more jobs in London. Yes so I got on my bike and moved hundreds of miles away from family (so just about not one family night babysitting ever) to leave the NE where jobs are. I still think a lot of how we do is down to hard work and smart choices not just luck. Eg I am virtually never ill and that's because I don't drink or smoke and only eat whole foods. Plenty of people my age are in an awful state because they abuse their body.

We are masters of our fate to a much larger extent than some think.
Is it luck or hard work that means my cleaner's son is on the law course LPC? (They are not wealthy)

So let us take Janet and John mythical couple both earn £25k a year in this bit of outer London. I just put them into a Halifax calculator and it says they can borrow £215k which frankly really surprises me that it is so large a figure. So they could certainly buy a flat around here (outer London). So the question is can they raise the deposit.

I think that is the biggest problem for people. If they buy at £225k and borrow 95% they need to produce about £5500 each which is not impossible to save. If they need a 15% deposit however then they need £33750 - £16,875 each to be saved - harder.

notauniquename · 21/05/2015 14:54

But that the first time you've said that actually as well as hard work you've also come from a comfortable and secure back ground.

My argument isn't that it's all down to luck so say "fuck it" and sit around waiting for luck to smile on you!

My argument is that unless you also have that luck, hard work alone is not enough. Even those with the best jobs, best education and best work ethic can struggle.

Luck doesn't always mean inherited privilege or winning the lottery, luck can sometimes mean having an opportunity to do something at a particular time. When conditions are or were more favourable.

That does not remove the need to also work and save hard. (And nobody has suggested it should!)

LotusLight · 21/05/2015 15:30

So let us move on to helping those who need a deposit get the last money they need to be in that position then. What is holding them back and how can we solve it and in fact more importantly ensure their children don't end u in the same position?

Jux · 21/05/2015 15:41

We are lucky. We own with no mortgage. This is largely because dh was given a lump sum when the price of a large two bedroomed flat in the London suburbs was less than 50K, so he bought one. We sold it at the height of the boom, lived in a van for a while, and then bought when the prices were a tiny bit lower.

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 18:20

So let us move on to helping those who need a deposit get the last money they need to be in that position then. What is holding them back and how can we solve it and in fact more importantly ensure their children don't end u in the same position?

Do you mean in policy terms Lotus? Or are you trailling the next episode of your 'how to be as fabulous as me' lecture series?

You could do them on video. In the style of Fanny Craddock.

notauniquename · 21/05/2015 18:46

I think that even though it is incredibly difficult to get a mortgage today, that's probably not a terribly bad thing. but that mortgages should be based on affordability, not deposit saved. (which would avoid the situation I actually found myself in when a mortgage company said that they didn't believe that I'd be able to service mortgage repayments. [and that instead i should rent in a market when rental prices were higher] or at least an intelligent balance between the two.

honestly, I'm not sure that there is a neat solution that can be wrapped up into a single post.

but as suggestions that I've seen in the past:
Compulsory purchase of homes that are neither occupied or advertised for rent. There are millions of empty houses. (which is just as messy as the "right to buy" idea that started the thread!) (but at least gets more social housing available without the need to build new properties on previously undeveloped land.)

Charging a levy on empty homes, this would provide incentive to lower the rents to get houses occupied - though it would also provide incentive to raise the price once tenants thought that they were secure. (so it has it's own issues) but lower rents make for easier savings, introducing this extra risk would reduce the "pull factor" to become a BTL landlord, reducing pressure on the market would reduce demand, and cause prices to fall. (it would also deter buy to leave foreign investment)

Or finally build more houses.
many many more houses.
Of course the trouble with this is as follows. lets assume that developers do build a million homes in and around London (somehow) supply would outstrip demand. house prices would fall. newer buyers would find themselves with negative equity. landlords would not only find that they had negative equity. but that the amount of rental income they might expect from their property would also be reduced.

but developers won't add a huge amount of homes into the system (lets face it why would they give over huge amounts of cash to build houses and in doing so devalue the very houses that they are building?)

Which leaves the best option of: increase supply of council/housing association properties. (and possibly get rid of right to buy)
Accept that a huge increase in supply for social housing would mean that the private rental market would take a hit. when the private rental market takes a hit that would mean directly affecting buy to let properties, and the supply demand price issues that are faced...

I guess the real issue is, (and I'm not making any kind of judgement on the home owners or landlords here):
you have worked hard.
you have gone without.
you have saved hard and bought a house, in fact bought multiple houses and rented some out.
at great personal risk.

You must be aware that the final option of "get the government to build more houses, to reduce both rental and commercial market pressure" would almost certainly mean "let's raise taxes".

Do you really want to pay more tax to fund the development of a program that will see your hard fought for business worse off?

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 18:49

Compulsory purchase of homes that are neither occupied or advertised for rent. There are millions of empty houses. (which is just as messy as the "right to buy" idea that started the thread!)

I'm not so sure it is as messy.

Leaving buildings empty long term is different from having a tenanted BTL. It suggests (probable) financial comfort, for one thing and it's morally different in a housing shortage.

LotusLight · 21/05/2015 19:00

We've talked about the policy issues and most of us have no control over them. I'd favour a right of citizens to buy empty state property in cities for conversion to housing.

I meant solve particular posters' issues over deposits. I think a 5% deposit is fair enough. if I were a lender I would want someone who could set aside not only the stamp duty and estate agent fees but also something towards the house so they have a stake in it and are investing in it. I don't know many people who ever got 100% mortgage and I don't think 100% is a great idea. 95% yes, possibly 90% which is fine in much of the country except within M25.

There is a big problem for people who can afford current mortgage and just want to port it or can afford rent and never missed a penny and have no credit card debt and aren't allowed. I would bring back self certification mortgages if a lender is prepared to lend on the basis of them for the self employed at least.

So if there really is a market gap for that and if these people who would take the loans are sure fire winners and the property could anyway be sold if the person defaulted then you move on line. I increasingly advise businesses involved with or who have obtained funding with crowd funding type websites. In fact people wanting to buy a small share of a property can come together already on line to do that. You might get 5 OAPs who were unable to get the 4% bonds the Government offered who just get 0.5% on savings who would rather get say 6% who could all put up £25k to provide one couple with a £125k loan (95%) on their first studio flat.

If I were a struggling potential home owner I would go as far away from work as needed in order to buy, do the awful commute and tolerate the studio flat even with the baby just to get started. So would that help anyone on the thread? Picking say Luton or Watford studio or one bed flat rather than silly dreams of a 2 bed flat in zone 2 London?

JassyRadlett · 21/05/2015 19:44

I must say I've never come across anyone trying to buy in Zone 2. Who are these straw men people? Most FTBs I know start in Zone 6 then move outwards from there.

I'd never, ever advise anyone to have or take a child into a property they weren't happy to spend the next 10 years in. Currently at the bottom of the market in particular, price differentials between sizes and types of housing grow faster than the prices at the bottom of the market - meaning that the next rung, let alone two ahead, remain out of reach until a huge amount of equity is achieved.

A baby in a studio is manageable. A six year old, or a nine year old, is less so,

I've seen this strategy go wrong for many people - and in particular people who were desperate and had their properties listed at well over the market rate and couldn't afford to accept much less, because the next sized place was out of reach, and they were already in the cheapest area they could find and still get to work, do nursery pickups etc. Walking around their homes when we were looking was a sobering and practical lesson.

So we compromised big-time in other areas and didn't buy until we found a 2-bed flat, as we were both in our 30s and knew we wanted children, which meant children in the next five years given my age.

Diamond23 · 21/05/2015 19:56

I don't get the MN zone 2 obsession. Zone 2 isn't very nice, in the Main. We were FTB in zone 1. That's worth mentioning, LoL

TheChandler · 21/05/2015 20:07

Why not buy somewhere like Bromley, if you can be south? OK, its quite a long commute if you work in central London, but not impossible.

Quick trawl of Right Move reveals quite a lot of starter homes available at £125,000:

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47135299.html

or £120,000:
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-49869787.html

Theres a lot of cheap flats available at auction. Some need a lot of work, some don't. But who expects their perfect home as a ftb anyway?

TheChandler · 21/05/2015 20:14

2 beds in Thornton Heath for £165,000. Actually this one looks quite a good buy. Simply needs a the floor taken up, probably a few timbers replaced and a new dpc.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48543194.html

Or if you can bear living in Croyden, this one actually looks quite nice:

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47875676.html

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 21:35

Cash offers (above £175k) only because only 47 years left on the lease Chandler. How does that help the average FTB?

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 21:44

And FTBs are often nervous of damp issues etc. It's more scary to take these dooer-uppers on when you are stretched by a huge mortgage and a small deposit.

Diamond23 · 21/05/2015 21:52

And you won't have any cash to do up a property if you're stretched getting together a deposit...

TheChandler · 21/05/2015 22:15

Plenty of others, that only took me 5 minutes. What about Essex? Loads of cheap stuff at auction, but you might have to buy above a shop or on a busy road. You don't need (a lot) of cash to do up a property (mind you I did live in one room while doing up a property once, saved heating bills over winter but going outdoors to access the toilet was a bit inconvenient). I'd rather rough it and buy. Was fun!

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 22:20

There are things you can do, absolutely.

But most of them will have their own expense attached. Season tickets into Liverpool St from Essex, for example. Or extensive renovations FTBs can't actually afford to do. A lot of the options will work out as unaffordable once you actually calculate a post-purchase budget.

I don't blame people for being cautious. Particularly if they have or are planning a family.

TheChandler · 21/05/2015 22:36

1 bed in Plumstead, handy for the garage, leasehold 95 years: £108,000

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-33673947.html?premiumA=true

2 bed end terraced 99 year leasehold, Ilford: £140,000

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34150659.html

2 bed ground floor flat, leasehold, just needs tidied up, Dagenham: £140,000

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-52341176.html

This one in Ilford's quite nice: 2 bed flat, 93 years left on long lease: £135,000:

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34654533.html

2 bed modern flat, Barking, needs no work: £150,000

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-50001805.html

Auction: 2 bed period flat, Ilford, 990 year lease: £150,000

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34317747.html

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 22:51

This one in Ilford's quite nice: 2 bed flat, 93 years left on long lease: £135,000:

"Quite nice"? Now I know you're jesting. Is it on an industrial park? And it's Seven Kings, not Ilford.

Auction: 2 bed period flat, Ilford, 990 year lease: £150,000

"Period flat"? A dubious looking conversion of a postage stamp sized house in Ilford Lane (not proper Ilford)? I'd be scared to go out at night.

Which isn't to say it couldn't be done. But it is incredibly grim for an established 30-something who has saved long and hard and just wants to start a family. A couple on average-ish wages could get stuck there forever once DC came along.

You're an estate agent, aren't you Chandler?

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 22:53

The Dagenham one is the best of the bunch. But it needs £20-30k spent on it ASAP. At least B&G is being regenerated.

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 22:53

B&D^

Arsenic · 21/05/2015 22:55

Are auction properties going for their guide price?

TheChandler · 21/05/2015 22:58

You're an estate agent, aren't you Chandler?

No, I'm not. I'm a solicitor, and I wouldn't have been able to get on the property market 20 years ago had I not bought a similar FTB to the ones I listed above. Mine had wet rot and rising damp. And I did most of the work myself, with DH. Except roofing and plastering.