To have already decided to vote To leave the Eu

[AmazingAmy]

Because of TTIP, I have already made up my mind.

Inn, those countries never joined the EU. We're in, we have financial ties, reliant on certain trades, if we pull out then it would cause a lot of economical damage. Don't get me wrong, there are some aspects of the EU that doesnt work for us as a country, but pulling out completely makes the UK look economically weak for starters.

Our economy would recover.

I'm sure it would, in time. However at what cost? The loss of business would be substantial, investors would pull out left, right and centre. British industry would suffer, farming for example - how would you subsidise those who heavily rely on EU trade?

I find it astonishing that some posters are saying I'm uneducated based on the fact I have politics A Level, A Grade politics.

I don't see how anyone could have judged you as uneducated based on that, given that you never mentioned it. Though I'm guessing this was an unfortunate lack of punctuation rather than what you meant to say.

Would the UK really suffer so badly if we pulled out of the EU?

It's not as if we are part of the Euro anyway, so in terms of currency there wouldn't be much of a change.

In terms of H&S standards or product specs, again I don't think there would be that much impact. We already have to manufacture for different countries eg the BRIC countries.

So where would the difficulties lie in continuing to trade with Europe?

YABUxinfinity and since when did a politics a level qualify you as educated? Even I managed one of those at school.
Isn't democracy grand? I hope there is no referendum, I have spent most of my adult life living elsewhere within the EEA and I am terrified that I won't be able to move away from the UK when I am ready to. Not to mention the fact that my DHs residence in the UK is entirely dependent on the UK being a member of the EU.

Stopandlook hit the nail on the head.
Marvellous. So glad the educated British public are getting to decide

innthejungle do you understand the status that Norway & Switzerland have? They are not fully separate from the EU at all, and they are Schengen states too- I don't see the UK keen to get in on that if we leave. We will be a pariah, not the wealthy haven with very high living standards thay those examples are.

bunch the EU isn't just about trade, it allows us a higher authority of our own govt is treating us like shit. Many laws that have passed because of the EU have been hugely beneficial to our daily lives, I personally like having my human rights and not to mention not having to get a visa to pop to the continent.

"innthejungle do you understand the status that Norway & Switzerland have? They are not fully separate from the EU at all, and they are Schengen states too- I don't see the UK keen to get in on that if we leave. We will be a pariah, not the wealthy haven with very high living standards thay those examples are. "

Depends what you mean by fully separate.

There is a common travel area within Schengen, but that's hardly the critical point here.

I wouldn't expect us to close our borders to Western Europe, there was never any objection to that, it's Eastern Europe that has caused the disquiet.

So where would the difficulties lie in continuing to trade with Europe?

Even if the UK opted out of the EU it would still need to be in the European Free Trade Association along with Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland. So you'd still be bound by rules, you just wouldn't have any input when those rules were being made or reviewed.

And it's not just about trade is it? Most foreign companies with a UK base would promptly up and leave and move to Ireland in the case of UK exiting the EU.

It depends on the rest of the EU - they have a trade surplus with the UK, so continuing a free trade agreement with us is beneficial to the EU.

TheXXed, a number of people on this thread don't seem to understand that we are already party to similar trade treaties. You are clearly not one of them.

The cases you mention, e.g. Vattenfall are still underway. Just because a case is brought doesn't mean it will be successful. Statistically, states successfully defend these cases more often than they lose them.

I'd much rather the UK stayed within the EU. The idea of having to comply with trading regulations (as an example) without knowing when they could change and not be a partner in drawing up the regulations could seriously damage the economy.

Cuba = failed state because American interference in the Marxist programme?

Green Party wants a referendum because of the anti-democratic aspects of EU, not just Marxists who are unhappy.

I can't get past the hype about TTIP, to figure out what I think. US senate just voted it down, anyway.

TTIP and the equivalent treaty between the US and Asia are very unlikely to happen. The Republicans are dead against them as they argue that US jobs will be exported. So TTIP is unlikely to get through Congress/ Senate.

I would be delighted about this as TTIP threatens the NHS. If there is any NHS left after 5 more Tory years.

I am v pro EU.

I am waiting for AmazingAmy to start a business, put years of sweat into it then employ me so she can give me half the profits

squoosh says what I want to say so much better (my brain is not fully awake yet).

And you think TTIP is bad? Would the tories negotiate something much better for our public services? Because however much the OP personally wants an economy based on localism, I'd be willing to bet that is not what's likely to happen. And this country will still make trade deals with others.

Can you really see Shiny Dave and his mates not joining TTIP, whether we were members of the EU or not?

TTIP is terrible, we would end up beholden to large US corporations who could dictate our laws or else sue our government to smithereens. This already happens in some African countries who cannot get off the ground because outside companies are constantly suiing them for what little money they have.

On the EU side it would be a catastrophic disaster to leave. It would be back to the 70's. The EU has its faults which outside interests who wants us beholden to America such as Murdoch go out of their way to exploit but the economic and social advantages far outweigh the negatives and in the long run it will cost is far more to leave than it costs us to stay in.

I'm paying off my mortgsge as fast as possible because if we leave economic chaos may cause interests rates to hit the roof. I'm even looking at the possibility of leaving the UK if we leave the EU. I know most sane people realise we're a tiny nation and we cannot go it alone.

There's a long nuanced discussion of TTIP here, I just wish it came with an executive summary.

The Eu is slowing getting rid of workers rights anyway.

Also I hate the agenda of austerity pushed on member states.

It's quite scary that this decision will be made by a bunch of people who don't even seem to understand the status of other non-EU European states.

Amy workers' rights are largely dictated by national laws, hence the huge variations seen within the EU, with the UK very much at the libertarian end of the spectrum, and moving further in that direction. If you moved across the channel to France your rights as an employee would improve instantly despite remaining within the EU. (Zero hours contracts for example are completely illegal here.)

I agree but I don't trust the Eu because It is a platform for big business.

And you'd rather trust the UK government with workers' rights? [hollow laugh]

The government that would like to repeal the HRA and join that paragon of democracy and human rights, Belarus, in rejecting the ECHR?

I hope we stay in and think we will

I'm opposed to ttip too but would rather renegotiate it within the EU.

I'm going to vote to stay in but that doesn't mean I don't think the EU needs a shake up- moving to Strasbourg one week out of four has to stop!