To have already decided to vote To leave the Eu

[AmazingAmy]

Because of TTIP, I have already made up my mind.

Also all our safety regulations will be diminished.

We need to move away from international trade and focus on localism. Globalisation will kill the planet.

If you were as educated as you say you are you should know that it is very bad writing to use an acronym without giving its full name first.

Because someone does not share your view does not make you uneducated.

Mumsnet shocks me with bigoted speak sometimes.

Australia seems too be alright outside the eu and they only have a third of our population. Canada has half of our population but seems okay.

itsmeiyscathy hahahahaha i think that's too when I see those initials :)

Oh goody. When Britain leaves the EU we'll get another referendum and wave bye bye to, erm, localism, and join the EU as an independent nation.

So let me get the this straight, you think businesses being able to sue governments for loss of trade is good thing?

TTIP is a shockingly bad idea

The way things are going is we will have it, regardless of EU membership. If it is ratified it will happen long before EU referendum and if the UK does, god help us, leave the EU it will take many years to extricate us.

So in that case your reasoning is a bit defunct, I think.

The eu is a platform for big business focussing on expansion by any means possible (inc funding Ukrainian facists.)

They are slowing scraping workers rights as they are nothing more than an attempt for a US Of Eu.

lemond No it's the stuff of nightmares

Whether we like it or not localism is the only viable future.

I didn't think TTIP had anything to do with The EU. Isn't a trade agreement beyond Europe, they were trying to get it through Senate this week in the US?

I'm not entirely a fan of big business. As a Marxist I support collectives and co-operatives. So if a business has 100 workers they each get one share.

yabu
amazing I know

See, in principle, philosophical terms I kinda don't disagree with you - 'localism' as you call it and the Economy of Enough is less likely to send humanity and the planet to hell in a handcart, but I don't think leaving or staying in the EU is going to affect that kind of paradigm shift.

There's nothing to stop the govt signing up to it anyway if we leave the EU. And I expect Cameron can't think much of being potentially liable for lawsuits from disgruntled industry, no matter how much of a twat he is.

There are currently around 3000 bilateral investment treaties around the world, and a number of multilateral treaties. The UM us party to many of them. Ttip is being reported by the mainstream press like it is something revolutionary. It really isn't.

As for the ability to sue governments if they take measures affecting trade, those rights already exist under many of the treaties I mentioned. The rights are there to encourage foreign investors by offering them certain protections, typically things like not having their investment expropriated by the state without compensation. If the investment is affected in a way that breaches the treaty, there can be an arbitration to resolve the dispute, usually under the auspices of a body such as the world bank. This is a neutral venue - an investor that has had its investment seized by a state is unlikely to get a fair hearing in the courts of that state.

But if you are against globalisation, you are unlikely to see the positives in a system that tries to ensure fair treatment of foreign investments...

"YAB totally Unreasonable. Leaving the EU means leaving the UK like a floating economical turd in the north sea. So sick of Britain's little emperor syndrome, we're not as big and clever as we think we are."

A floating turd?

Like Switzerland and Norway?

Yeah proper shitholes them. Clearly if we don't submit to EU overlordship we will turn into Somalia, overnight, the evidence is clear before our eyes.

Incidentally, Australia and Canada might be outside the EU but they are party to an awful lot of investment treaties.

OP what makes you think Marxism will work any better now than the failed attempts in the past to implement it?
Frankly it scares me that the great British public will have a say on this.

euro I haven't heard anyone refer to TTIP as revolutionary just a lot worse than the current treaties. Also you make it sound as though these treaties have gone by unnoticed and without incident.

There have been lots of cases where people have felt big corporations have been exerting too much pressure over govt policy.

This for example

Roseotto- so true democracy scares you.

They are state capitalist countries, the state owned the means of production instead of the individual.

Isolation is not such a good idea for a small island nation that can't grow its own damn food and has a rising population that expects to have a certain standard of living. Pissing off the US and the EU in one go: brilliant idea.

Also the USA is responsible for failing countries like Cuba.

I'd like to piss off corporate America and Corporate Britain.