To ask band 5 nurses (at lower end of pay scale) how much you earn?

[Llbarls81]

I've just done a calculation as I'm due to qualify in September and I'm shocked at how little the pay is!! I've just worked out that a band 5 entry level nurse takes home around £1400 a month?? Surely this isn't right?

I'm emergency services and band 3...

6catsans3gingerkittens- I hope you reported that ward/wards and all the staff on it to the absolute highest level and banged on until those incompetent nurses were sacked??? Because in 13 years nursing, 10 at RGN, I've never seen such awful treatment and if I did would not stop until something was done about it??? That is truly disgusting. What happened to the staff???

Grays It's the same for junior doctors, they have the same burden, oh and social workers. What I don't agree is that certain professionals ride it out because they know they will go up the salary scale, where as other professionals will never reach those aspiring highs.

Sharon you miss my point.

Of course no one would propose to pay a 'dodgy' police officer a 'shit' wage and a 'squeaky clean' officer a 'handsome wage.

If someone is trying to support themselves, and possibly a family, on under £20,000 a year, with deductions including 14% towards their pension, in Surrey they are more likely to be at risk of corruption with a financial reward than someone on a more comfortable income.

Obviously the vast majority of people are scrupulously honest.

I tried going back into nursing a couple of years ago after a break of 10+ years. I did three shifts before deciding (as I'd been warned by everyone still in the profession) I'd rather stack shelves in Tesco for all the crap nurses now have to deal with.
I was trained to give a high level of care and was very experienced before leaving to move overseas. Going back onto the wards in the UK was a depressing experience after working overseas.
There was no time to give the care I'd been trained to give. I went to talk to an elderly man to ask if he'd prefer a bath or a shower, only to be told by the HCA that there was no time for that - a sponge down would have to suffice. I was shocked, but she was right. There were 18 elderly patients with varying degrees of confusion/dementia and mobility problems. Most needed help with feeding, toileting, washing and dressing. They needed constant watching because, due to their confusion, they'd get up and try to walk, thus risking falls.
There was one qualified nurse in the ward whose time was taken up with dressings, drs rounds, hunting for social care beds, handing out meds and paperwork. The care was given by two HCAs, who were good, but not qualified nurses.
Over the three days, I had one 15 minute break and couldn't get the loo at all. That wasn't my main worry though. I decided that if I couldn't give the care I was trained to give, I didn't want to nurse at all. I couldn't live with myself if someone came to some harm, or worse, due to me not being able to look after them appropriately.
The money is secondary for many, but you can't keep squeezing people, making them feel undervalued and still expect them to give 100% to their work.
My friend is a nurse tutor and says that although there are plenty of applicants, the average length of service for graduates is now 5 years. How is that cost effective to the public purse? Much better to staff and pay fairly and keep those qualified and experienced workforce, surely? We're losing too many to other countries, the private sector, or out of nursing altogether.
I am working in a supermarket now (not shelf stacking ). I have no real responsibility (no one is going to die because of what I do or don't do), I get paid pretty much the same with no need for any qualifications, I go home on time, get all my breaks and subsidised meals, if I need to go to the loo, I go, I get 10% off my shopping, shares in the company and I have a laugh with my colleagues.
We do get the occasional stroppy or rude customer, but no one has tried to hit me or spit on me, yet..
I actually look forward to going to work, which used to be the case 20 years ago when I was nursing, but I completely understand why my old colleagues are completely worn out with it now.

Last year a survey by the NMC found that 64% of student nurses are considering pursuing a nursing career abroad

I expect that is much much higher now.

I speak to students all the time, I had a lad do a spoke day with me last week and he was quite open about the fact that his cohort are already, despite their love for nursing, feeling quite down about nursing in this country because of the media, speaking with other nurses who quite bluntly tell them "DONT DO IT", pay cuts, registration increases, nhs politics, the need to strike.. all sorts.

Girls I'm so sorry you felt you had to leave. I think I work at one of the few places in which nurses feel they can do their jobs properly and are quite happy, turnover is low, our wards are well staffed, people seem to love banking here too.

They don't get enough respect. I just want to say thank you to all the fantastic nurses out there. You've certainly helped me over the years, especially when I first started my job and was the idiot associate who knew little to nothing

As a band 5 nurse, less than 6 months post qualifying I could quite easily (I've seen it happen) be given they keys to the unit, 2 support workers to manage and 16 clients with severe mental health problems, all of whom are sectioned, some of whom have forensic history including murder.
I'd then be in sole charge and in fact the only qualified person in the building for 12 hours of a night shift.
I'd have to complete risk assessments quickly and safely to decide if people were ok to go out if they had leave they wanted to use and I'd have to know and check their legal status for leave, I'd have to administer medication - including making assessments and decisions about discretionary medications (not on prescriptions) and the use of PRN medications - weighing up risks and benefits, considering issues around consent and capacity - each and every time I handed a pill over.
I'd have to supervise / manage my staff team to make sure all the jobs were getting done. There would be regular checks on every client - anywhere from every 15 minutes to every hour depending on their care plan.
Supper and drinks would have to be provided for clients.
And that's before I've had chance to talk to anyone, deal with any issues or do any of the endless paperwork (because if you don't document it then it hasn't been done). And errors in any area - could lead to serious issues - even supper! If you're late with supper it can upset certain clients and cause issues that have knock on effects into the rest of the evening.

It's a lot of responsibility and while the pay isn't terrible - it's not fantastic either and taking away unsociable hours would be dreadful.

I had to leave my beloved job of 23 years at band 7 as my manager refused to consider adjusting my shifts after I returned from mat leave.

I couldn't afford the child care costs on my wage.

I have left the nhs completely.

I was a senior sister in critical care. I was good at my job, I loved my job passionately. I had no choice as financially we would have been ruined.

No one is indispensable, no one is special. You are a body making up the numbers. That's it.

mandatory sounds alarmingly familiar... I too work forensics and am often the only nurse here. I'm 1 year post reg but was left alone as the only nurse on the unit after only 2 weeks due to lack of staff. the responsibility is unbelievable. I've only jut gotten used to the feeling of dread when I let people out on leave and almost thank the Lord when they return on time and in one piece. Shame they scrapped the mental health officer status danger money it would soften the blow a bit

That's lucky Greys. I'm sure there are still places like that around, but as you say, there's very little movement, so most of the available posts are probably in the least desirable areas.
I do miss nursing and feel that my skills are being wasted, but every time I think about going back, that experience and those of my friends still working, put me off.
One friend is a highly experienced, qualified coronary care nurse. His skills are definitely best utilised in the acute setting, but managers decided he has to rotate through the general medical ward too. He hates it and it's such a waste of his talents as one of only two nurses on his grade on CCU. He has consultants calling him at home and when he's away on holiday to discuss patient treatment - he is a really talented nurse, but he gets fed up with it. He's paid around £30k a year, the consultants are £100k+! He gets called in at short notice when cover is needed.
It's not just the money, it's the expectation and pressure put on him endlessly, for very little thanks from management.

I'm sorry and not trying to be rude... But nurse wages are well publicised - if you're not going to be happy with it why go into the profession and then moan about it later?

I wouldn't want to work for that and that's why I didn't become a nurse.

happygirlnow, if your motive for deciding whether you want to be a nurse was financial then nursing had had a lucky escape. Most people choose nursing due to them actually wanting to care for people rather than be rich.

I'm a band 7 CNS and am clearly very lucky to work in a lovely hospital with a really lovely team. I think the thing to remember is that it is a starting salary and you'll soon work your way up! I personally don't think nursing is too badly paid. I don't think any junior nurse should be left with the responsibility some of you have mentioned and I'd never have stuck it out if I had been in that position.

I think this is a really good salary. Isn't it? Am I missing something? (Now wondering if everyone else secretly earns tons more than me...)

loulou sorry worded that badly, didn't mean I ever considered it, no way would I want to do that job! I just couldn't, respect to those who can.

But regardless we all know how much nursing pays so if you decide you still want to do it for other reasons than what's the point of doing it then continually moaning about the pay... It's gone on for as long as I can remember and I just don't get why those concerned about the pay pick the career in the first place!

happy I think the issue is that no matter how much people warn you and no matter how much you see if you previously work on the wards you never truly know how hard and stressful and how much responsibility comes with that pin number. You soon realise after registration that yes it may be a good starting salary but certainly isn't enough.

happy - fair enough ??

It's the job I want to do Happy.

There are loads of issues in nursing but the basic premise of it, working with people to help them improve their quality of life is absolutely the best. I've worked with some interesting and incredible people and I'm also pretty good at it.

I'd probably be reasonably good at various other things, some of which would pay better but I doubt I'd love them the way I do my job most days

But liking my job and thinking that it's paid well enough for the amount of stress and responsibility it entails aren't mutually exclusive.

I want to be a nurse. I knew what the pay was when I decided I wanted to train. I thought it wasn't great then, I still think it isn't great but liking the job is for now enough to keep me here. It might not always be and it certainly doesn't mean I'm not entitled to say I think nurses are worth more.

Personally I'd like to see the starting salary paid through preceptorship (to try and encourage not rushing through that if nothing else!) and then increased. And then then increments increased a little with more room for extra payments for extra responsibilities and role - it seems like we're always trying to get people to take on a bit more (can you just be infection control lead? Mental health act lead? Physical health champion?) without being able to offer more financial reward especially to people at the top of their bands who have lots of experience and would be great to make use of.

Take your points on board but just think if the pay is so unsatisfactory you need to either accept it is and is unlikely to increase much in real terms or do something that pays more...

I've been qualified for 13 years and worked for the nhs since 1996. I have 2 relevant post grad degrees and many more qualifications, i prescribe, hold a huge caseload, manage staff and train students. I take huge responsibility for statutory assessments and court reports etc. I have only just started being paid at band 6 ie 28k.

I dont think thebstarting salary is especially poor or different to other public sector jobs but the lack of progression and reward for post-qualification experience, expertise and qualifications/training is shocking. There is very little scope to progress as a clinical nurse.

Pippa12
To be blunt, fuck all happened, ot was a cover up.

It's funny how when MPs pay is under discussion you get comments of needing to pay to get the best, including if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

Discuss Nursing and/or social care you get the usual well you knew what the pay was, if you're doing it for the money you're the wrong type of person.

I was a Nurse for 17 years, and while there were lots of trigger points and I've posted about them before, money was a big issue too.

In our local hospital, you have to be on serious money to afford to live near there. Public transport is a pain during the day and virtually non existent after 7:30 in the evening. Staff have to pay to park and don't even get to park on site, there's a shuttle bus so you have to plan an extra window of 30 minutes to your journey. And in the evening you get dropped off on a non maned industrial estate, where already this year have been 3 muggings and 1 sexual assault.

When I left I was in a senior ward based role, I was regularly covering at least 1 extra shift a week. Management would regularly try to get you to cover for time in liu rather than get paid under the bank system.

When I would point out that I already had over a week due to me and would only do it if I was paid. I would then get paid basic rate but still be expected to work to my grade. Rarely got a meal break, regularly got bollocked by Matron for allowing my staff to have bottles of water at the station.

I was lucky enough to be aware of jobs Where my skills and experience was transferable. I walked in to a job where I was instantly paid £10,000 more that I was getting in a good year. No weekends, no shift work, still long hours but real flexi time.

I've come home annoyed, frustrated, and whinging, but since leaving I've not sat crying, I've not spent hours stressed that I've forgotten to do something or worse forgot to record it. When I was ill I was supported, not bullied.

People are being priced out of nursing. The average age of student Nurse is now 28, so you can't really compare it to a newly graduates.

A large proportion have children so aren't entitled to live in the few nursing homes that still survive.

We're getting to a position where you'll have to have 'other' money to to able to afford to be a Nurse, I have no idea how central London hospitals are recruiting. Even when I left we had 2 staff that found it cheaper to live in house shares and only be home part time. That's doable if there is another parent/caregiver on scene. Not long after I left 2 others did too as their relationships had broken down and they couldn't afford childcare, or if they could they couldn't find anyone who do it till 8 in the evening and later.

Ohh this has turned in to a bit of a vent.

But seriously band 5 is an ok wage if you're child free or have very solid care arrangements. If you are allowed work as a junior with the right support and mentoring and the ability to progress.

Except none of that happens I was left in charge of a 30 bedded ward 2weeks after my registration came through, my support was someone I'd qualified with. And I know that crap like that is still happening.

Everyone saying, "it's just a starting salary, you can work your way up etc" I agree with you up to a point but of course that's not always the case. I was extremely lucky that I secured my first band 6 post a couple of years after I qualified but I know some fantastic nurses who are still at band 5 with up to 20 years experience under their belts, having to work bank every weekend to make ends meet.

In my current role I earn about £28k so not a bad wage but not commensurate with the level of responsibility in my opinion. I am responsible for a large (and ever increasing) caseload of children with severe mental health issues, almost all of whom are actively suicidal or a danger to others and should really be in hospital but there are no beds available. If a child presents at A&E having taken an overdose I have to decide (alone and usually with limited information available to me) whether they are safe to go home. I have sat and listened calmly while an 11 year old child graphically described her experience of being gang raped. I have seen a children cut thier arms so deeply you could see bone. I have witnessed a colleague get her jaw broken by a very poorly lad during a psychotic episode. I have been verbally abused, spat at, punched and sexually assaulted and had to shrug it off and get on with my day because I was too busy to even process what had happened. I have also had the great privilege of seeing desperately unwell children get better and knowing I had something to do with it. It's a very rewarding job but it's so demanding (physically, emotionally and intellectually) and it galls me that the salary doesn't reflect that.

mandatory your description of your shift was exactly what I had to regularly do when I started. I am in a similar position to flippidy and progressed to a band 7 quickly - 4 years after qualifying. I appreciate many don't but just re iterating that it does happen.

People that are questioning why you would choose a career in nursing when the reputation of it is that of poor pay - when I was 20 and looking for a career I had little concept of salaries. At that point I only needed money to rent a room and to go out on a Saturday night and perhaps but a new top for that night out every few weeks. What I'm saying is that my priorities were very different and a nurses salary actually sounded like a lot of money. Unfortunately at 20 I had little concept of what money I may need long term.