To somehow decline a request to become Guardian?

[LatieKatie]

Hi

Help.

Today some friends asked what we thought about becoming the Guardian of their two kids in case something happened to the two of them.

These are pretty good friends. Have known since before both lots of us had kids. We see them about 2/3 times a year (they are not local to us). Kids are very young school age (so - if something happened to the parents tomorrow - we would be talking about around 15 years of "live at home" Guardianship.

The husband has a sister - who he doesn't get on with at all. The wife has several siblings - who I guess that she also doesn't get on with well enough. We are a stable couple with two children a similar age and a nice house in a nice community (although not near their families).

I guess I have three things that put me off Guardianship in this case:

• These friends parent slightly differently to me (and I am quite a bit stricter).
• I worry about the impact on our current family life: the whole cost of living (including holidays, trips, days out etc) would be considerably more for four kids than two. Ok, we are very lucky and currently do quite a lot of travel and things: can't see that being sustainable for four kids. I assume that money could be "released from the parent's estate" to help fund things, but I would probably feel guilty (i.e. that the estate should be kept intact for their education/future).
• my Dad (my mum died a couple of years ago) has been recently diagnosed with inoperable cancer. I am already feeling awfully like "the squashed middle": I feel like the weight of the world is on my shoulders. The thought of further responsibility stresses the crap out of me :(

Husband is not very "community minded" and would be fairly against guardianship of anyone.

I theoretically would be up for guardianship, but probably someone very close to me (nieces/nephews or similar). I would probably struggle to turn friends down as a last resort after the event, but can't help to think that there must be someone closer to them as a better first resort (like one of their siblings).

... BUT I feel like such a bitch wanting to somehow politely decline... How on earth WOULD you politely decline?!

Help :(

2. You'd have all their money to raise them

This is not necessarily so, in fact to prevent guardians from raiding the kitty to fund their own children, trusts are set up, or should be, to protect the child's interests.

Someone I knew of was a trustee to a child with guardians, the stepmother was pregnant when her sibling died and she ended up with four children instead of two within three months. The guardians had to go the trust for everything, shoes, etc., to show the need. The terms of the trust were as tight as a gnat's chuff.

That was one child.

I think your friend is asking too much. At the very least, they should show you evidence of the terms of the trust. This is not mercenary, it's practical.
If they haven't even got this far, then absolutely no.

We have named guardians and a specific insurance policy with them as beneficiaries which will pay out a monthly sum to them for the upkeep of our son in the event that they did have to take him in which would be paid until he is 21. I haven't asked family because my siblings are child free by choice and my husbands already have large families of their own (and the cousins do not get on as well enough for me to be confident that they wouldn't all suffer should they have to live together). Grandparents seems like a risky option as they are most likely to pre-decease us, and these friends see at least as much of our son as them anyway.

OP - I think you need to be honest as your reasoning shows that you have seriously considered their request and don't think that you are able to offer their children the life they deserve should you be needed to. It's a difficult decision and you own it to yourselves and them to consider it carefully - hopefully they will appreciate that.

We weren't asked. DH's friend and his wife out is down as guardians in their wills for their 4 children under 5. To say we weren't thrilled is an understatement. They refused to change it though (we were child free by choice then - potentially forever).

When we were pregnant with DD, DH for a very shorty phonecall from his friend saying that they'd have to change their wills now as there was no way we would treat their children as our own should anything happen to them when we had a child of our own.

Bloody Nora Disappointed they've got a cheek!

Can't believe it was actually questioned upthread whether people really do this??
I would personally rather friends than family, they are more local, have kids at the same school and it would be "easier" for them, and for my kids. I have one sister not local and the other is childless by choice so probably wouldn't appreciate my lot! But when I've talked about it with people I have made clear what the financial position would be and what would be expected- that's only fair.

lucky - this is completely a thing!
If you have children when you make your will, it's part of the process.
You are very fortunate to have family that you trust / would be happy to see your children brought up with. Many people don't, which is why they seek trusted friends with similar values.

I know Vacant!

We had to think of this for our wills - our families are on the other side of the world, and I wouldn't want the DSs moving away from everything and everyone they know to go and live with them.

Fortunately, I believe SS are very unlikely to insist on an international move for the children if we have named local guardians even if our family do contest the will.

As the children get older, there are sufficient funds for them to go to boarding school - so our friends (childless by circumstance) wouldn't be as restricted.

What Laurie said:

1. They'd be dead, no one to tell you to parent differently

1. You'd have all their money to raise them

1. It won't happen

My DM is really annoyed that we haven't named her as Guardian in our wills, but we've asked my sister because she is by far the best person to look after the DC. But, we asked her, because she had the right to think it through very carefully as to whether she would be happy to do it. And we gave her a very clear idea of the state our finances would be in upon both our deaths and that we didn't have any expectations of her parenting when we were both dead.
She very kindly agreed to this but I don't really care about whether it is 'unfair' to ask someone to do this. My first, and only, responsibility is to try and ensure the best care for my children should the worst happen. But, if somebody doesn't want to look after them or doesn't feel completely happy with the possibility then they are not the best option for my childrens care.

We've just named DD1 (18) as guardian to DD2 (12) if the worst happens because that feels much better that asking friends or family. There's a discretionary trust to help with money management.

We haven't made provision for if DD2 is left alone because, to be perfectly honest, I don't think there is a good option.

I've got a friend who has asked this, and one of her daughters has profound long term severe disabilities, and therefore would have a huge impact on our family life (know this makes me sound incredibly selfish no one else needs to say ok?)

know this makes me sound incredibly selfish

I don't think anyone who doesn't want to risk taking on a lifetime caring for someone with profound disabilities is selfish. This would be permanently life-changing in a way that looking after a NT child would not.

Goldmandra I hadn't thought of changing guardianship of our DC to ds1 who is now 19, that's really interesting prospect and just hit me between the eyes. Why didn't I think of that?? Thank you!

OP. You need to say no. The likelihood is that nothing will happen to your friends. But it might do. At one point we were guardians to 3 sets of people. We said yes, but very relieved that the years have gone by and we haven't had to act on our promise. Just one set are young enough now that we would have to physically support them rather than emotionally.

3. It won't happen

It most probably won't - only 1% of children under 16 lose both parents but that's 140,000 children in the UK.

My DCs know 2 children [different families] who have lost both parents to suicide/war/car accident/cancer. We know one child very well, indeed.

OP doesn't live locally to these children. When something so utterly devastating happens to a child or young person moving to another place away from extended family & family friends, their own friends and peer group, school -supportive teachers and familiar routine, activity clubs etc etc would both multiply their losses and remove vital support.

I've struggled with this - I genuinely don't know who I could ask. I am an only child and although my husband has two siblings he wouldn't want to ask either of them although I am sure they would both do their best for ds. My closest friends live overseas. My mum would probably step in but she is in her late 70s so it would be a big ask for her.

Ds is 12, just hope we survive another six years until he is an adult! It's not easy.

DH and I have arranged guardianship of our two DSs in our wills. We both asked respective siblings if they would be happy to take it on - DH's brother said "yes" straight away, but my sister said she would need to think about it and later said that she would do it.

We had a lot more confidence in my sister's response after that - she had thought about it and discussed it with her DH, so we felt that it was a considered response and that therefore she would be better placed to take on the task if need be.

If either had said no, I would probably have been disappointed initially, but then glad they had been honest - I wouldn't have wanted my children cared for by people who were a bit ambivalent about doing it.

I'm also interested in the changing guardianship to oldest DC thing. My brother is our DDs' guardian, and named in our wills as such, but DD1 is now 18... do we need to change the wills now? or because she is 18 guardianship of DD2 would just revert to her?

I have had to refuse.

A friend asked when her baby was v young and they clearly hadn't thought it through. I just said that I thought they needed to consider it more carefully, that of course I'd be happy to help with transitions if the worst should happen, but that they really really really needed to consider family (since both sets of parents were alive as well as two siblings and no major major issues, just different parenting styles) because I wouldn't be able to manage the (presumably welcome) involvement of so many relatives in her children's lives.

Why didn't I think of that?? Thank you!

I only thought of it because a little boy who lives near us lost both his parents in a plane crash at the beginning of this year and his older siblings are now caring for him. It suddenly struck me as making a lot of sense and DD1 wouldn't have it any other way now she realised it's a possibility which helps.

Fortunately for us BIL has now agreed to take them on if need be and would certainly have lots of help from PIL. (BIl Currently childless, but trying). If he had said no again, we would have asked friends. My parents were furious when they found out because they said that my sister aka golden child should have them. There is no way that I want this to happen, to be taken to another country, be schooled in another language so their perfect child can exercise her controlling spitefulness over my children. My DC couldn't even tell you their aunts name. I have had to have counselling to get over what (I quote) damage my family has caused me.

So, unless you know them really well, don't always assume family is the better option. I'm sure they know family would always be the first port of call, so that in itself says something about their family relations.

I think you need to be honest. However, I'm surprised by this thread. I'm named guardian for my friend's two children (she had abusive parents) and my step sister knows that I'd be there in a heartbeat for her DC if ever needed. I'd like to think friends and family would do the same for me. As it is, our DC would go to one of my or DH's brothers and their partners, should the worst happen, and there's life insurance in place to support them financially. My DM and PILs would also be heavily involved, though we would never nominate them as guardians due to their age.

I can't help thinking that however much upheaval there would be to an adult's life, having someone else's children come and join the family, how much worse it would be to be that child or children, parents dead, and knowing no one wanted you. I could not watch children of friends or family being put into the care system.

Uncertain - have you made it clear in your will that your sister is NOT get be given guardianship? You wouldn't want a legal challenge to your will to be successful.

We were in almost exactly the same situation a while ago OP (could have written the first part of your post almost word for word). We said yes as we accepted that our friends don't feel they have a good option closer to home. If it came to it, we'd be able to have their two children live with us, just, even if it wouldn't be ideal, and financially we'd be ok too. Otherwise we'd have said no as anything else wouldn't have been fair on the children.

We've asked my brother to be guardian for our two if anything happens to us, but we made it clear to him that we wouldn't expect them to automatically live with him. He's just best placed to decide what would be best for them depending on the circumstances (their ages, where they go to school at the time etc).

Everybody should definitely think about these things before they happen!

In a similar situation with dear friends who have four kids (we have two, one with SN) we agreed to be named 'testamentary guardians' - ie that we would not automatically raise the children but would take responsibility for deciding what should happen to them and the financial arrangements.

That is a possible compromise but if you don't feel able to do it you should feel able to say no altogether.

We have since worked hard on keeping said friends well and happy