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What percentage of kids get level 6 in KS2 SATS?

139 replies

Dodo76 · 11/05/2015 17:15

How common is it to score level 6 in SATs? Do many kids manage this or just a few?

OP posts:
Janus · 12/05/2015 19:34

My dd2 got a level 6 maths last year, we didn't get any 'score' though, ie I would never know if she was higher than the others that got it (about 10 got it). She was also entered for English but didn't get it, I think only about 5 did so maybe it is more likely for maths than English?
I would always have said her english was her strong subject!

voddiekeepsmesane · 12/05/2015 19:48

DS is sitting L6 for all three tests but we have made it clear that it is not about him and all about the school ( so much that when I talk about SATs he repeats that mantra before I even say anything) He is aware that very few children pass level 6 and that level 6 is actually an average for year 9!!

I am happy for him to take the tests as he was happy to do them I think the 11+ prep we did last year has made him more relaxed about exams and he knows we are proud of him as long as he feels he has done the best he can no matter the outcome.

The one thing that has annoyed me about his school is they sent out a pep talk kind of newsletter a couple of weeks ago making out that SATs are not only for them but also for the children as their new secondary schools will use them for setting which is so not true in this area. A) most secondary schools around here have mixed ability years 7-9 and B) they have their own CAT tests to make sure classes have the right range in them. I wish his primary would just be honest and say they want it for their own league table results.

CocktailQueen · 12/05/2015 21:09

Dd is doing all the level 6 papers. She thought the reading one very hard yesterday. You need emotional maturity and life experience to get level 6, and a lot of year 6s just don't have it. Maths is easier as it's more objective.

Dd has got level 6 in reading this year - marked by her teacher - so it wil be interesting to see how SATs go for her.

She passed the eleven plus in sept, without tutoring, and said it was really hard, but passed easily, so fingers crossed.

Am not concerned re her levels but SHE wants to get a level 6 to prove to her teachers she can do it.

ChaiseLounger · 12/05/2015 21:24

Ds1 isn't. Only a few are, 10 I think out of 65.
The maths is easier than the literacy apparently, more get level 6 maths than they do literacy spag and reading

CountryLovingGirl · 12/05/2015 21:55

happy2bhomely,

Get that school reported ASAP! That is cheating!

DontOpenDeadInside · 12/05/2015 22:12

I thought d had been put in for all 3 level 6 tests, but it was just the reading one, which is weird considering its the hardest to pass? She is absolutely brilliant at spag (its my strong point too) so surprised she wasn't entered in that.

HowDoesThatWork · 12/05/2015 22:12

happy2bhomely,

Please report it. Your daughter will not get in trouble, nor will you.

devon004 · 12/05/2015 22:20

Loving the level 3 in slag!
As far as I am aware 6 doesn't have sublevels so not sure how you would know that your child was top.
big school here with 60 kids and maybe 4 tsking level 6 maths so quite rare I think.

JustCallMeDory · 12/05/2015 22:39

Not meaning to derail the thread, but could anyone tell me what difference Level6 makes when the DC move up to secondary school? Genuine question as I'm keen to know what practical difference it makes.

pieceofpurplesky · 12/05/2015 22:41

Nothing just. They may be in top set but will be with Level 5s or not setted at all

happy2bhomely · 12/05/2015 22:48

I've spoken to DD and she is upset. She asked what will happen if it is found out that the school has cheated. I've told her that it looks likely that the results will be voided. She has said, "So basically that means the whole of year 6 has been for nothing. All that work and I won't even know what level I got."

I am so annoyed. It is a big London primary with 120 year 6 pupils. At least 15 of them have been put in to level 6 tests. The Head of school has only been there one year. DD has clarified what was said and there is no doubt in my mind that her teacher has broken many rules. Nodding, shaking her head, tapping the table, passing a rubber and actually giving the answers! She only did this to my daughter. The teacher sat next to her throughout the test. There were 3 other teachers in the room and one assistant. The executive head was also there for a short time. DD is saying that the teachers will back each other up and say she is lying. They would only need to look in her workbooks to see that she has terrible spelling normally!

DH has told me to consider the stress the teacher is under to get the right levels. He has even said I should consider how will I feel if she gets the sack or does something silly.

JustCallMeDory · 12/05/2015 22:49

Thanks pieceofpurple that's what I thought. Is it ever the case that only Level 6s get into the top set?

CocktailQueen · 12/05/2015 23:10

Happy2bhomely -report your dd's school! DD said today that a child needed the loo in the SATs and was accompanied to the loo and back.

Your school is cheating. Tough shit if the teacher gets sacked - he has cheated. A similar thing happened here last year and the parent went to the papers - the teacher was disciplined and the results of all the school scrutinised.

Teachers are under stress to get increased results for dc. They do not have to cheat in front of a whole year of Year 6s to get them.

pieceofpurplesky · 13/05/2015 09:15

No just there are not enough sixes to make a full set.
And yes happyreport the school for cheating - it will affect your daughters grades throughout high school - her targets will be higher than she can achieve - school have set her up to fail. The school will get a zero on the league table and will think twice (the kids get their grades though I think - it happened to a local school)

happy2bhomely · 13/05/2015 09:54

That is my main concern to be honest. The thought that if she gets a 6, then her yr 9 targets will be 8's. Then she will spend her whole time at school failing to reach impossible targets. I withdrew her from the level 6 maths because they expected her to attend an extra 2 booster sessions a week. I told them that it was too much and I was happy for her to do the reading test only. DD enjoys them, and is consistently getting 5's, so I was ok with that.

Her teacher assessment levels have been 5's since the end of yr 5. Now I'm wondering how reliable they are too.

To be honest, I'm losing faith all round. My son (yr 9) came home and told me that kids in his tests this week have had their phones out looking at screen shots of past papers. He said his teachers have guided them heavily towards certain questions and some of the questions they have practised in class have been identical to those in the test. It's apparently one of the best schools in the borough.

pieceofpurplesky · 13/05/2015 10:04

Happy that is why it's one of the best - they cheat! The best school around here let the kids take controlled assessments home to complete - should be done in timed exam conditions ...

SomewhereIBelong · 13/05/2015 10:05

happy - our school runs the Y9 sats as "exam practise" - so they do them in the hall with proper invigilators etc to get used to it. No phones, only stationery on desks, no loo-trips alone etc... They do some past papers in class, but they are decreasing in value since they change the curriculum so much they haven't learned some of the stuff in those papers. Every school seems to be different.

vindscreenviper · 13/05/2015 10:07

I'm grasping at straws here happy2be but does your DD have a 1-to-1 TA? If she requires a scribe I can sort of see how the person doing that job mistakenly helped her too much.

If I were you I would report the school, I do understand how these test results have become a giant stick to beat schools with, but cheating is not the answer. Children will know when this happens and asking them to collude in it is a horrible burden to place on small shoulders.

happy2bhomely · 13/05/2015 10:33

No, DD has never had a 1-1. There was absolutely no reason why the head would need to sit next to her. It wasn't help. It was telling her the answers. As in, she actually said, the next letter is A. DD said she was embarrassed that other children would see her getting help. She said she kept looking at her class teacher to try and make eye contact. She was worried she would get into trouble. At least 4 other members of staff must have seen what happened, and pretended not to. Maybe they will report it too.

DD has no difficulties with reading but is a terrible speller. She spells phonetically and despite lots of practice at home, still struggles with it. It is her weakest area by a mile, and I can't help but think it was a deliberate decision to target my daughter, which makes me think that her class teacher provided that information.

LilyBolero · 13/05/2015 10:37

You are allowed to provide a reader or a prompter for children with reading difficulties, or attention difficulties etc
www.gov.uk/key-stage-2-tests-how-to-use-access-arrangements

"Readers

The use of a reader must be normal classroom practice. You must have evidence to show that resources are routinely committed to providing this support. A reader must only be used on a one-to-one basis. In most cases, this will apply to pupils whose reading age is considerably lower than their actual age.

You don’t need to request permission from us or your LA in these circumstances.

Readers are usually teachers or support assistants and they:

don’t need to be specialists in the subject being tested
should be able to read accurately and at a reasonable speed
must not be another pupil at the school or a relative / carer or guardian of the pupil

Before the test period, you need to make sure readers understand:

the test format and style
their role and what may or may not be read to a pupil in particular tests
any subject-specific issues that might occur

You should consider testing pupils in a separate room if they need more than single words or sentences read to them. For example a pupil’s individual education plan may show that they need the whole question paper read to them so that they can access the test.

If a pupil requests it, the reader may also read back any part of a pupil’s response."

We certainly had about 4 children at our school with 1:1 adult support. (not telling them the answers though!!).

LilyBolero · 13/05/2015 10:41

btw, the L6 maths thing did make a small difference for ds1 - he missed out on top set maths because he didn't do L6 maths. But by half term in term 1, the teacher in set 2 spotted he should be in set 1, gave him the set 1 module test, which he did really well on, better than half of set 1 so he shifted up.

Fwiw, the person below who said L6 writers didn't have so much flair as L5 writers, just more technique, that's a bit of a generalisation!!! There ARE some children who are just naturally talented writers, and who absorb the technique as well, they're not all hothoused into boring technical formulaic machines!!! (Slightly feel I have to defend dd here, because I know the moderator for her L6 writing mark commented specifically on that - said 'you could just see she had such a flair for the use of language, and for engaging the reader, whilst achieving the L6 techniques as well'.)

HowDoesThatWork · 13/05/2015 10:42

For what it is worth, most reports of maladministration come from parents of children who sat the tests.

vindscreenviper · 13/05/2015 10:44

In that case happy2be it's just plain dishonesty on the part of the Head Sad.
I wouldn't rely on any of the other staff reporting this. The school have put you and your DD in an awful situation, do you have younger DC still at the school and feel like they will be punished if you report?
It's a bloody disgraceful way to behave, what kind of example is the Head setting to her staff and pupils!

happy2bhomely · 13/05/2015 10:57

Yep, I have another 2 children in yrs 2 and R. I would love to be able to say I've reported it already. I got as far as calling the number this morning. I hung up. I want to be able to tell my daughter that I have. She needs to see that it is not acceptable. I am nervous though. It will be obvious that the report came from my daughter. I'm tempted to ask DD's best friend's mum to make the call. I should imagine she will be even more angry than me.

vindscreenviper · 13/05/2015 11:13

Even if somebody else makes the call the DfE investigator may need to speak to your DD as well as all the staff present. They will be also ask to look at your DD's previous work and teacher assessments to see if there is an unexplainable difference.
I can understand a new Head wanting to make a rapid impact but this is not the way to do it, imagine how the other staff are feeling? I know from experience how unpleasant it is to work for a dishonest manager, you never know if or when they will throw you under a bus to save themselves. I think the staff would be grateful if you helped to put a stop to it - I would.
But you must do what you think is best for your family Flowers

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