To wonder if tory voters care about the 1 million.

[Jacobsmum1972]

I bet they don't give a flying monkeys for anyone coming under attack by the Tories. The poor, disabled and tennants.

I have felt close to tears all day because I know what a conservative majority means for so many in this country.

And the living wage is a different argument altogether.

How is that going to happen though? Realistically it's not. It's like saying that everyone should be able to buy their own house like they could 20/30 years ago. Slashing LHA is not going to make landlords lower the rent. And landlords set rent on how much the house is worth so the housing boom in the main reason rent is higher these days. They don't keep putting it up because they think people will get more benefits. I've rented for years and usually the rent stays the same.

For a considerable time, that is.

I take your point but equally with housing costs rising and rising how is this being supported long term with benefits going to happen either?

There are people who don't get tax credits who are on a low wage. I think the time has come to put a stop to people working a few hours in a cushy job and getting top ups. They've said they won't change child benefit. So it will be child tax credits and all the other tax credits which will be hit. IMHO.

Vivienne they already have changed tax credits to UC with conditionality for hours worked.

And in terms of the benefits point. Rent is demand and supply, benefits increase the demand and therefore overinflate the price. So if housing benefit didn't exist then rent would be cheaper. OK not cheap enough, OK not to the extent that it should be stopped immediately but it is a problem. Rents have changed differently depending on where you are also.

Lotus you clearly don't know the first thing about economics. You do NOT run a country like a family. You need to borrow money to run a country it's a not a negative thing.

But that is my point. People's situations are different. Some people can afford to do a low-paid job without tax credits, some can't but can't get a better-paid job. How do we decide who is entitled to tax credit and who is being lazy and should get a better job? I agree in principle that those who could, should work. But work should also pay. Its not always as easy as saying someone should just work longer hours? I work in a reasonably well-paid job but childcare eats up about 65% of my salary. Fortunately my dh earns reasonably well too. However, if I were a single parent, I couldn't survive on just my salary. I don't know what the answer is, but I think that people find themselves in situations where work just doesn't pay enough for all kinds of reasons.

Getting rid of housing benefit is not going to help anyone. More people would simply be plunged into impossible situations and would be ultimately homeless.

Well exactly grace, the system isn't working properly. Yes it it's challenging to solve but that isn't a reason not to try imo.

Also which economic theory suggests that it's OK to have a massive national debt and continue growing it? My degree in economics was 20 years ago, so I may well be horribly out of date...... The only justification for borrowing is during recession (which we arent in) and it should be balanced by surplus in boom times.

The reason more people need housing benefit these days is that there just isn't enough social housing.

I'll probably get flamed to high heaven for saying this, but what does it matter if some people don't work full-time hours if they don't want to? I find it weird that so many talk as if the purpose of life is to work as much as is humanly possible. Surely most of us work to live, rather than living to work.

Bursary you aren't listening to what I'm saying.

Sorry your second point is more sensible. I Also think that a truly messed up housing market means people need social housing who shouldn't.

notdavidtennant true, but I work long hours (self employed) in order to be able to afford a house. Since the crash, my plans were rather scuppered. I've had to move from a job with lower pay and less hours to one that will enable for me to save for the massive deposit I will need. It's just one of those things.

WonderingWillow I'm not saying that people shouldn't work long hours if they want to. What I'm saying is that just because some people want to work long hours in order to better themselves financially, why does it seem to be assumed that that creates a moral obligation for everyone else to do the same?

No no I never suggested you said that at all. And your position is a reasonable one. I just think for those of us stuck in generation rent, it's just the reality, and most of our friends are in the same situation.

Notdavid, it's fine to choose if the person is self financing that choice but it shouldn't have ever got to the situation that it's a choice the state pays for.

Many are simply unrealistic when it comes to finances and pick areas they can't afford, have children they can't/wont support etc. Whilst I hate to put more emphasis on schools perhaps high school guidance class's should include budgetting and living within your means and sex ed more about relationships and not diving into bed with just anyone and how to use contraception properly.

The current set up is unsustainable and is long over due for a change back to self supporting and only those that truly cannot work due to ill health or disability being helped with short term assistance between job losses.

Littlemonstersrule "it's fine to choose if the person is self financing that choice but it shouldn't have ever got to the situation that it's a choice the state pays for."

Why not?

I don't mind if some of my taxes go to help others.

Pay tax, buy civilisation.

I don't think tax credits have ever been some massive amount of money. 10 years ago when my husband was on a training salary we got some tax credits and a little housing benefit. We really struggled to get by. My parents used to help us out a lot.

Tax credits vary hugely according to your income. The withdrawal rate is 41%, which coupled with 20% income tax and 12% NI (total 73%), and possible withdrawal of other benefits means that final income on a salary of £7k can be not much different from someone earning a £25k salary.

It's one of the reasons that a lot of people complain about 'tax credit colleagues', who are just turning up to work to earn their tax credits effectively, and have no interest in their job.

I strongly disagree with you David Tennant. Benefits are for those who need them, as a safety net. Why should I work and pay taxes to fund someone else's leisure?

Jobless is right. It is why people on very low incomes with lots of state top ups who seem jealous of mumsnetters on £25k a year have absolutely no idea that in fact sometimes the net pay is identical because the person working a few hours and on about £8k a year gets lots of housing benefit etc.
If I did not work we'd get £18k a year in rent alone which is absolutely disgusting in my view!