To wonder if tory voters care about the 1 million.

[Jacobsmum1972]

I bet they don't give a flying monkeys for anyone coming under attack by the Tories. The poor, disabled and tennants.

I have felt close to tears all day because I know what a conservative majority means for so many in this country.

Helena - sorry, probably didn't type that very clearly - I meant I was able to take on a zero-hours job in addition to the self-employed business that was (just) covering rent, council tax, etc, not instead of it, thereby pretty much doubling my income at a stroke. If it hadn't been for the flexibility of the zero hours, I'd have had to give up or cut back the self-employed side of things, which would've been a blow since it's now starting to be modestly profitable.

Are you voting to help me? No you're not. No one is going to look out for me apart from me. I learned that from the Labour government.

Ah My apologies in that case. Its nice to see that zero hours can work if done in the right way

No worries Helena and thanks for the ! They can definitely be abused by some employers and that needs to be tackled in the same way as minimum wage abuse was tackled, but on the whole I find them a great way of working for a lot of people that either don't want, or can't commit to, permanent work.

My current job is nightshift in a petrol station - they'll phone every two weeks and ask if I can do x,y and z dates - there's no consequences if I say no. They don't need to pay holiday pay, sick pay, etc, and I don't need to commit to shifts I don't want to do - it's all give and take. When I'm not working there or making stuff to sell, I might be delivering leaflets (£50 per thousand delivered), planting strawbs (good weather? Ten hours pay! Bad weather? Two hours and a basic Polish lesson), or cleaning caravans - all zero-hours contracts. It' not exactly a utopian lifestyle, but it's much easier to pick up a lot of zero-hours work at the bottom of the labour market, earn a lot more at short notice than a regular 40-hour minimum wage job, take unexpected time off with no notice with no consequences, and the increase in the tax threshold has really made a noticeable difference to a lot of people in that position.

(Just to clarify, I voted SNP and can't actually ever see myself voting tory, but some of their policies arent necessarily all bad, much as it pains me to say it!)

Jacobsmum1972

"Why do I get a biscuit ???"

Because you are a narrow minded bigot. Perhaps you should go and live in Cuba for 5 years and come back and tell us how good it is?

P.S. I am not rich and I have a disabled child.

How do you get these zero hour jobs Renart? I want some!

That's me told in no uncertain terms .

Obviously I know how you physically do it, as I had to do the same myself for a month, when DS was a toddler and I was very poor. It's pretty miserable though, isn't it.

This attitude of lazy people claiming working tax credits is short sighted and ridiculous. The reason tax credits were started in the first places was because some people are never going to be able to earn enough money to support themselves, particularly with food prices and everything else going through the roof! Not because they are lazy. Not because they don't work hard but because they have a job which is not in a lucrative area. That isn't their fault.

If you think that everyone can get a highly paid job through hard work then you are being totally disingenuous.

Not to mention that these lower paid jobs have as much need to be done as others,

But bursery tax credits are used as a top up. I personally know someone who could earn more but works in a low paid job because it suits her, she quite enjoys it and because of tax credits her income is OK. It's a complex situation and like it or not people do play the system. Not everyone does agreed, but some people do.

Nothing is better for the poor of this country than this Conservative win. Don't believe any scaremongering. The Tories are best for Britain and the sensible people of this contrary think so too and have a Tory Government. They didn't all shout about their voting intentions before (although I did) but they know perfectly well you run a country like a family - you spend the money that you have, not more and you care for family. Those Tory values, family values, will ensure that everyone in this country will be better off over the next 5 years.

There are strong feelings on left and right and I hope all of us know how upset and hurt the losers are in all this and try to give them space to grieve but the bottom line is the right is best for Britain, Britain has chosen the right and as one nation we will now try to do what is right for everyone.

Bursary mum, if you think that everyone on tax credits is working as much as they can you are sadly mistaken. Some may have all the adults working full time but most will be part time or have one parent not working. They the blame the state for their lack of money Search MN to see those that work out how few hours they need etc to claim. If the system wasn't being abused, it wouldn't need an overhaul.

flip

I've been lucky and only had a day or so without the boiler

Unfortunately for DH who had to run up and downstairs I like a very hot bath

I felt very hard done by

And then DH realised that he could plug the kettle in upstairs

I think that the fact that a few people are less scrupulous that they should be is not an argument for removing a system which works well for many people who are not abusing it.

It's not surprising that someone would rather work in a lower paid job and claim tax credits rather than work in an only slightly higher paid job and get nothing if the latter means that they will then not be able to afford the rent! There are many employers who are never going to be willing to pay a wage that people can reasonably live on and that is the problem.

I knew a single parent who decided to do some extra hours to make her job full time. Her housing benefit was completely cut and she ended up with £1500 of debt within the space of 2 months. So working more hours caused her big problems. Why isn't that being addressed instead of labelling people lazy?

rufus

I really missed my baths! One of the first things I did was have a bath when the water and central heating were fixed. DS was too little to really mind I think.

No bursary the problem is that rent is too high and that benefits raise them. Of course there isn't enough housing, which also adds to the first of rent. We then have a disequilibrium and an unsustainable situation of the state propping people up who don't need or shouldn't need propping up. It's crackers.

I don't blame her either, perhaps I'd do the same but the state shouldn't be supporting people who can support themselves. Benefits should only be those who genuinely can't, usually in the short term.

Where have I labelled individuals as lazy?

That is the big big issue. We have many more people in work but plenty are not working full time. The UK has much lower productivity than it needs. Who in their right mind would work very long hours if they work fewer they are paid by the state or their husband (or wife) will keep them? It's just common sense that most will work the fewest number of hours that makes them best off. Ditto high taxes too - my brother stopped working on Sundays (NHS doctor) as over time when about half the money was taken in tax/NI as that was tipping point.

IDS has been trying to make full time work pay but it is a very difficult issue. Also if you go on and then off benefits you can find it hard to do that so you are incentivised not to work. We are trying to change that but it is not a easy nut to crack.

BursrayMum

I completely understand where you're coming from. People are probably also worried about incurring overpayments, particuarly if their wages go up and down. This can result in money being cut, putting people into financial hardship.

Not you, specifically Toby. I may have seen that on another thread.

Yes but although you say benefits are for people who genuinely can't work, it's perfectly possible to work full time hours in a job that only pays £700 a month, which just will not cover the rent, the council tax, utility bills, and food in any area. This is the reason why top ups were brought in. I grew up in the 80s. I was lucky as both my parents had good jobs but I remember so well those kids whose parents couldn't even afford to buy them a winter coat.

So it's simplistic to say that if someone can work full time then they shouldn't need benefits. You can work your butt off and still be in the worst kind of poverty.

I completely support the idea of people having better opportunities for work but the Conservatives have no interest whatsoever in social mobility and they never have. They just see people from disadvantaged backgrounds as irrelevant and unimportant.

I personally know someone who could earn more but works in a low-paid job because it suits her.

But surely if this person moved on to a different, better-paid job with longer hours, the low- paid job would still need to be done by someone? And that person would still rely on tax credits to top up a wage which isn't enough to live on. Or should we just get rid of all the cleaners/teaching assistants/carers/nursery workers and everyone should just go and get a well-paid job in the city? Or maybe the low-paid jobs should only be taken by those who have a husband or partner who are highly paid? Seriously, as a pp said, until all jobs pay a living wage then tax credits are essential to enable low-paid workers to survive.

But bursary one of the biggest issues that we have is that rent is too high. This is because of housing shortages (supply and demand). And it needs tackling, not more and more benefits chucked into the equation. If people could rent a basic 2 need flat for 400 a month then this would solve a lot.

Gracegrape people are in different situations, not everyone in low paid work gets tax credits.