Vote SNP, get Tory

[bythestairs]

Nicola Sturgeon has shown herself to be a charismatic politican who, understandably, is drawing a lot of support. But is she really going to get a chance to influence the next government?

The Conservatives are already declaring themselves the winners, if they get the most seats which the current polls are just giving them. The relationship between Cameron and Clegg is seamless. And, perhaps strongest of all, the SNP have the same media backers as the Conservatives. Why would that be?

Is it better to have Nicola Sturgeon as a heckler a long way from Westminster or to change the current government and have a strong representation of the SNP at Scottish level?

The MP's who will lose their seats in Scotland will do so because their first consideration was for WM not their constituents.
I'ts still not clear to me what worries people about SNP. They have been open and transparent about their position, unlike the other two main parties. They do not want to attack England or any other country.

SNP has a poor record but it seems to be being ignored. No one has questioned their record in power - the disastrous Curriculum for Excellence, NHS waiting times, the Single Police Force, Armed Police, limited / no house building.

They are being questioned by a weak opposition and so see themselves as invulnerable and always right. They might win a few more seats but only because they can always blame someone else for their shortcomings and because no one is holding them accountable.

The SNP will get 44.7% or less of the overall vote and will claim to "speak for Scotland". But they don't. Every time they talk about an "Anti-Tory Majority, I just think of the anti-SNP majority taking more than half of the vote, even if we get few seats this time.

No dup seats in that final poll?

Would the Tories go in with them? I don't know much about them but they seem to have more seats that a lot of the other smaller parties.

I guess DUP would go with Tories, 3 seats I think.

They will have the support of the DUP and UKIP but probably not in a coalition with them. That's 325 votes.

DUP will have 8 or 9 seats.

You can see with those figures that if Labour were to retain their Scottish seats they'd be the largest party, no arguments about legitimacy to try and form government. As it stands, it's looks incredibly messy. No idea what would happen. It's going to be interesting if nothing else.

Every time Scotland voted Labour, it ended up with a Tory Government....exactly how is that representative?

Er, yes...except on the occasions when we ended up with a Labour government instead. Or a Tory-libdem coalition.

All this talk about Scotland having no voice in Westminster makes me question whether SNP voters have any understanding of our democracy at all. Why would Scottish voters expect the government in Westminster to reflect how they have voted in every single parliament? The choice in my English constituency isn't always in line with how things go in Westminster either, but I accept that there are 650 seats and that people in different areas will vote in different ways.

If Scottish voters wanted the Scottish electorate (and the Scottish electorate alone) to determine the result of every general election, then they should have voted for independence. They chose instead to remain within the union, of which they represent just one part. That means that they won't always get the government that the Scottish electorate might choose, because Scottish MPs are a relatively small minority in the Parliament as a whole.

Of course, the irony of this election is that Labour would be in with a fighting chance if it weren't for the SNP. But then, I guess the SNP have motives that go way beyond what happens in the next parliament.

SNP has a poor record but it seems to be being ignored

I don't think anyone has claimed the SNP to be perfect. DH and myself don't agree with every single one of their policies (the latest one with minimum pricing of alcohol means the consumer will get hit hardest if that legislation is passed...don't agree with it). But you take the best of a bad lot and you make do, what other option is there? That's how I view it anyway!

Blaming the Scottish electorate for not obediently voting Scottish Labour is is one of the reasons they're not voting Scottish Labour.

It would actually be better if SNP just took all 59 Scottish seats. Worst case scenario is taking all the Labour ones and leaving a few Lib Dem/Tory seats.

If Tories get 284 and Lib Dems 31 it wont be messy, will be done and dusted by Friday morning.

Scottish people including Nicola Sturgeon overwhelmingly support a Labour Gov over a Tory one according to the polls.

They want someone else to make that happen for them though. Not so much blaming as stating a fact.

The Tories and to a degree Labour have always treated Scotland well because that's where they holiday and have their estates so they see it much as a benevolent landlord might: romantic shadowed glens and appropriately nice natives who say thankyou for lots of crumbs.

The trouble for many of the people of Scotland is that that is also how they believe the SNP view Scotland outside the Central Belt power zone and it's hard to argue with that view.

Here's a for you iseenatree....

they might win a few more seats

Well if predictions are correct I think going from 6 seats to 40 plus is more than a few.

You need to accept the SNP is perfectly legitimate and has the protection of International Courts. There is no point grumbling about it.
SNP will be good for England too. The smaller parties will take heart from the debates which will open.

blowinahoolie the truth must be hard to take when you get your news from Wings and bellacaledonia but this is the reality.

I agree with you YNK.

Who is saying the SNP is not legitimate except for David Cameron and the right wing press. That is not what this is about, it's simple arithmetic.

It's still not clear to me what worries people about SNP. They have been open and transparent about their position, unlike the other two main parties. They do not want to attack England or any other country

I think the fear of the SNP comes primarily from the fact that they are a nationalist party. They talk about wanting a better deal for Scotland and a stronger voice for Scotland in Westminster, and people in rUK hear that as meaning that Scotland wants more than its fair share of power and resourcing. And as lots of people in England feel that Scotland already gets a better deal, that really doesn't go down very well - it is perceived as greedy and entitled.

I think there is a feeling among many people that Scotland chose not to accept the risks associated with independence but still wants most of the potential benefits. And that if Scottish nationalism is going to become the major force in Scottish politics, then perhaps they should have voted to go it alone.

I'm not saying that any of this is right btw. But it is how a lot of people see it.

Nervo Blaming the Scottish electorate for not obediently voting Scottish Labour is is one of the reasons they're not voting Scottish Labour.
Exactly. This applies to a lot of people I know.

Anyway i'm off, I hope to hell i'm wrong, I really do.

Nobody is blaming the Scottish electorate for not obediently voting anything. I think that's just an excuse tbh - I can't believe that many Scottish voters are really that shallow.

Like the rest of us, Scottish voters are free to vote whichever way they choose. They just need to accept the potential consequences of voting in that way. As do the rest of us when we cast our ballots.

Same old scare mongering tactics that the media and the old parties did with the referendum, the only difference this time is that it's not just the Scottish electorate who are being targetted.

Vote SNP get tory? Well if that's the democratic outcome of the system which is in place then that's fine. I don't see why the Scottish electorate should be held to ransom because the old guard parties fear change, because the electorate in England, who elect 591 of the 650 MPs, a VAST majority couldn't be convinced to back one party over another - how the fuck would that be the fault of the Scots?

Just fuck right off. SNP holding labour to ransom but the media and tories and labour can't see this tactic as the same thing -that's exactly why I've no intention of voting for those shysters again. First time SNP voter here, use to vote Labour or Lib dems, fuck them all.

It's time the English electorate had a party that worked for them too, perhaps what we really need is nationalist parties representing our individual nations at Westminster, rather than the old guard who can't see past their next expenses cheque.

Like the rest of us, Scottish voters are free to vote whichever way they choose. They just need to accept the potential consequences of voting in that way. As do the rest of us when we cast our ballots.

Yet at every point along the way in the campaign it's the SNP and Scotland who have CONSTANTLY been pointed at and told how we are somehow the bad guys, at every fucking opportunity by the Tories and Labour, by the "British" media. Honestly I wish the English electorate would understand how this bullshit drives Scottish nationalist numpties, it gives them a hard on reading this pish.

We're free to vote how we want and we will - but the result is a cumulative effect of votes, there is not one region, nation or person who is at fault but I've absolutely not doubt that the "UK" media will portray Scotland as the bad guy if Labour fail to win a majority and completely forget all the regions in England who didn't back them.

Just watch the media come Friday. Nationalist arseholes up here will be hoping that's how it works out.