to think allowing our sons to play rugby is irresponsible parenting?

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There's another article in the Times today about Professor Allyson Pollock's attempt to get people to understand how dangerous school rugby is. She's been abused on Twitter, stonewalled by other parents, ignored by Rugby's professional bodies. (Link here but behind paywall)

Basically, a combination of parental peer pressure and the Establishment mean people won't listen to what she has to say. Rugby as it is played at school at present is not safe.

AIBU to think we aren't protecting our sons? Why are we allowing this compulsory sport to put at risk so much for our boys?

The implication was that it is compulsory at all schools

No one has implied that. But it is compulsory at many schools.

Do you think it should be a compulsory sport (if it is already) or should it be voluntary?

If I have this right, contested scrums are from U11 and handing off from U13 for DC's school and the other prep schools that they play against. Lifting in the line out comes later (not sure when - U16, maybe?).

but it is carefully coached/ refereed (even in matches, the referee tends to be coaching both sides as much as they are refereeing). If the two team's packs are mismatched, then they go to uncontested scrums. No misbehaviour in the scrums or dangerous tackles are tolerated, and DS remains shocked about the team where someone was throwing punches in the rucks (he was sent off).

And neither is her data accurate. The samples are small it's not nationwide.

I'm not saying it's not a dangerous sport. Any contact sport can be dangerous. I just don't feel that the research data provided by her or by the rfu to counter her research go far enough to provide conclusive evidence either way.

You can't say rugby is compulsory which implies that all schools must play rugby in the same way that I can't say that all school don't make their dc play it. This is the same for many school sports though, if a school has hockey or lacrosse on the timetable they are very tough games with I'm sure a high accident/injury rate. The only difference I can see with a game such as lacrosse is that they wear padding and helmets.

I must be extremely irresponsible with my three contact sport loving dc. I can only expect that the coaching that they receive is from knowledgable coaches who can't each them to play safe.

Is this compulsory for boys? Are there different compulsory sports for boys and girls? That is strange.

Can stupid spell check

The stuff about bad play in the scrums won't be tolerated/coaches are on the look out is only half the story.

As parents, the concern is what they are looking out for. And no amount of telling off is going to put another 12yo boy's should back in place.

DS plays rugby. He loves it. I choose not to watch.

At the school every child has to pick a sport per term from some options.
The compulsory rugby is Tag rather than full contact.

Compulsory full rugby would be stupid
Compulsory sport, of the team / non team variety is a very good thing

My point was that netball, which is compulsory in all our local schools, has produced some pretty awful injuries, not just mil. And if insurers don't worry about rugby, that surely says something about the perceived level of risk. Equally, I know someone who was brain damaged (sight issues) playing cricket - another compulsory sport. singling out rugby seems scare mongering. Like I say, many things we have to do have inherent risks, and I think sport should be something children have to do. Maybe just segregate into those who want to do tag and those who want to have the full experience and the pleasure and pain that goes with it (thus building some character and resilience along the way).

Yes, BE does provide some cover, but only for life changing injuries and then not much - certainly not the amount you'd need to adapt houses/cars/retrain/cover not working for years. BE are more concerned with providing members public liability insurance (which, with my mare, is a good thing!). I'm largely self employed so a fractured wrist or leg can actually cause real financial implications so I need more specialist cover. Rugby was included as part of general sports risk (on par with football, netball. Cricket), eventing was only included with a hefty additional premium.

Well, I don't profess to be an expert by any means, but they must be looking out for roughly the right things given that the only bone broken in any team DS has played in or against in the 5 years DS has played was a collar broken in a fall after DS tackled another boy the same size as himself in training.

Adult rugby is a different kettle of fish I suspect. We watched a young farmers match once when they called the match off after the third ambulance...

My DS has played rugby since he was 6. Now in Junior Academy County level. Loves it. Dh is a qualified rugby coach.

Rugby is a dangerous sport, not necessarily more dangerous than others trampolines have taken over from horse riding accidents in A and E I hearI always worry when he goes to play a match.

The problem with school rugby is that they don't have to adhere to RFU rules, unlike local clubs, and so can, and do, develop their own ways of developing the children. This means sometimes they introduce complex and physical aspects of the game at a much earlier stage than clubs adhering to the RFU codes.

The big danger when you get kids who don't want to play is they are more likely to get hurt because they are more hesitant and less likely to execute or receive a tackle properly because it demands a high level of commitment.

Add to that the fact that children all grow at different rates. A year 7 boy can be tiny, they can also be huge, hardly a level playing field.

Rugby in schools should not be compulsory and all teachers should be qualified coaches and stick to the RFU guidelines.

in my experience it's not the parents being irresponsible but the school. My son has played rugby for many years in a club environment and each year was taught how to tackle and scrum. He also learnt about discipline (which isn't taught in football imo) and his coaches we're really strict about which studs were allowed on the rugby pitch. Since joining secondary school in year 7 none of the above has been taught which leads to the majority of injuries in school rugby.

My school experience back in the 80s:

Rugby - few bruises but no injuries witnessed
Hockey - couple of broken noses, couple of facial cuts
Cricket - couple of broken fingers, many bruises
Cross- country - one broken leg...

quite a few well-to-do pupils there, so... horse-riding and skiing outside of school - lots of injuries!

Isn't a potentially injurious activity good for learning the limits of your body - ie when you do and don't bounce?

None of the above being my injuries but what I saw. I broke a leg falling of a wall. Was disappointed I couldn't give the plaster cast a more intrepid backstory.

My DS played American football in high school, and ended up with a concussion that kept him glued him to the couch for a week, not allowed to walk around except to go to the bathroom, allowed to listen to the radio for half hour intervals but not to watch tv or play video games, and no reading or writing.

I have never been so scared as the day I sat in a doctor's office with him and heard him recite the months of the year three times with April and October missing, and counting to ten and back all wrong.

I was absolutely strict about enforcing his idleness and week off screens, helping him upstairs to bed and helping him to sit up in the morning and make his way downstairs. He recovered fully. However it killed his dream of aviation as a career.

He was wearing a helmet when he got the concussion, and all the padding and other protective equipment, and it was all in good shape. He was a really good player and he was incredibly fit and committed to playing. He lifted weights and wrestled in the off season to keep in shape and to develop strength. He had been playing for two years in high school and he was conscientious about all the safety stuff. Before that he played basketball for four years. He had a neck that was almost as wide as his head, American football style, not from eating junk but from weightlifting and strength training. He just had the misfortune to meet an extremely fast and large tackle at the wrong angle during a practice. And he bounced pretty well. They both did.

A year or two later (and completely unrelated) the NFL started taking concussion seriously in the wake of a few suicides and much investigation of the brains of former American football players. It is not right to accuse someone of an agenda just because her son was injured and she is now asking questions and presenting a case for better safety. Most inquiries into safety happen as a result of serious injury, or lots of injury.

Concussion is no joke, and neither are serious neck injuries. Broken legs are not in the same league at all as head and neck injuries.

Society is far too risk averse these days, we adults are slowly restricting our children so much that they don't have any sort of freedom. That's why we have a generation of softies and fatties who would rather kill aliens on the xbox while eating takeaway pizza that actually get outside and run around.
What bollocks.
You don't have to risk breaking your neck or getting a concussion in order to be fit. There are more alternatives to sitting around with your X box than endangering the health of other boys or literally risking your neck.

If schools are not prepared to adhere to RFU guidelines then the RFU and parents need to step up and challenge that, and I agree with Orlando that proper statistics are needed.

If parents are routinely seeing serious injuries in school sports then something is really amiss with the level of conditioning required, and with the coaching. My DCs apart from DS with football and wrestling have played basketball, volleyball, soccer, softball, badminton, swimming and water polo and have not been injured, nor have I seen injuries beyond fingers sprained (basketball).

Morebeta, thanks, yes we told the coach at school he was not allowed in matches where contested scrums were played. Even if that meant he could not play at all.

They respected that decision, but we had to go and have a chat to achieve this.

I am terrified of DS playing, but he loves it and plays it well.

We have only had 1 A&e visit so far (eye unit, bruised eyeball from studs )

Pffffff

Surely the question here from all of the anecdotal evidence is whether a non rfu/qualified coach should be able to teach these contact sports?

It would appear that most people agree that club rugby is a different ball game so to speak and that that is generally speaking a safer game due to being coaches by trained coaches.

If a school wants to play contact sports then they need the appropriate coaches? Not sure what the alternative is for those who don't want to join in? Good old fashioned laps of the field for the duration of the lesson?

I really do think that nobody should be forced to play a contact sport. And, if a school is going to offer (note - offer) a contact sport, they must have properly trained coaches.

I broke my ankle aged 14 in an RE lesson

Religion is a dangerous thing Rhonda

It is indeed, kew

I would assume and parent would have weighed up the risks for themselves, and wouldn't comment. My son plays football, skis, and runs. I admit rugby scares me- I have friends that work in A&E who won't let their kids play, mind you they also are dead against trampolines without safety nets, which I'm amazed at too I have to say. Next door they bought a 12 foot trampoline for their kids, their three year old used to go on it unsupervised with no safety net and my heart was in my mouth. Maybe I'm neurotic though, it's entirely possible.

7 years ago my nephew went skiing with the school and broke his leg..

My DS is about to start at a school that is top in the country for Rugby and are completely obsessed. DS hates rugby and really doesn't want to play (he's a football player) but unfortunately it is their compulsory sport. I am very worried about him playing.

sourdrawers

Yes - but again, that was a voluntary trip and I presume you assessed the risks.

I love this thread - so many anecdotes. But a total lack of data. Doesn't the fact there's a lack of data worry people? The RFU and schools should be open.

This could be a good FOI request for schools.

As a Mum of rugby playing DC, I agree that that in general clubs are better than schools in ensuring safety standards - if a school wants to do rugby, they should be using qualified coaches and following RFU guidelines.

I think in general many sports (i.e not just rugby) injuries (esp muscular/ligaments/soft tissues) are down to poor procedures - not enough warming up/cooling down exercises, lack of fitness, playing when tired/run down etc.

If a child does club, school as well as county level sports their growing bodies are being pushed a lot and parents need to remember that professional players have physio and medics working with them unlike their DC.

I used to play a lot of squash and as a result have knackered knees - I know of runners with similar problems so its a sports thing rather than a rugby specific issue.

Also I know of Drs and other medics who themselves play rugby or have rugby playing DC.

I too would be interested in proper statistics.