to think allowing our sons to play rugby is irresponsible parenting?

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There's another article in the Times today about Professor Allyson Pollock's attempt to get people to understand how dangerous school rugby is. She's been abused on Twitter, stonewalled by other parents, ignored by Rugby's professional bodies. (Link here but behind paywall)

Basically, a combination of parental peer pressure and the Establishment mean people won't listen to what she has to say. Rugby as it is played at school at present is not safe.

AIBU to think we aren't protecting our sons? Why are we allowing this compulsory sport to put at risk so much for our boys?

The thing is both rugby and football are seen as 'boys or men' sport therefore all boys should play that sport, know the rules etc etc...

It's a very skewed way of looking at things because it means that any issue with said sport is going to be overlooked or the person laughed at and getting abuse because he/she dare saying something wrong about 'THE' sport.

Now of course, annecdote isn't scientific evidence. But when boddies who should have said scientific evidence are resorting to insult etc than I'm wondering if the person isn't actually right in the first place....

skinnyamericano wow an ambulance arriving every week! I am shocked by that! Unless my DCs school and rugby clubs are unique that seems way above the norm. With 4 football/rugby playing DCs I have seen an ambulance arriving twice. once to a football game, once to a rugby game both for broken legs.

I totally agree that correct and supportive coaching and organisation at every age group is crucial. To ensure safety and of course enjoyment. For me I have seen the positives far out weighing the risks. There is much talk around concussion in Rugby at the moment and i hope this will lead to further tightening of safety procedures.

It would be superb if all kids were matched to the kind of activity that suited them. The lone wolves, the team people etc, the outward bound types etc Sport can be such a great outlet. So great for health and mental health. But until this ideal can be achieved I think its good for kids to test what IS available if just for a short time. No not all kids are going to like rugby but like broccoli you never know until you try it.

orlando this is incedental but the dcs go out to play cricket wearing pads galore, boxes and head gear. Rugby gets a bad rap compared to cricket!

Just for the record and this is totally anecdotal - ex rugby player husband broke his foot in the park playing with our toddler the day after his last match.......

All sport should be extra curricular in school. Not everyone is into it, in fact it makes some people really miserable and therefore should no more be compulsory than orchestra or chess club. Can you imagine forcing kids to play the clarinet because it forms a sense of working with others in the group and finding it hard builds character? Or having people jeer as someone loses a maths competition? And saying don't be soft, accept you are a loser. compulsory PE should be basic nutrition and fun keep fit only, a selection of activities that are not based on being popular teams and being very sporty should be possible.

This is an ongoing issue in Scotland and there was a lot of press about rugby safety in the run up to the Commonwealth Games as Scotland were promoting home sports over others in the run up to the Games. Unfortunately my google brain is not working too well at the moment. A lot of the research has been done at Edinburgh University and it was requested / sponsored by the Scottish government. A couple of the issues that struck me were the increase in injuries since the advent of the professional game and more pertinent to this discussion the relative weakness of necks of young men (18 - 20) as compared to adult males. The article I saw was talking about addressing this by limiting the positions young men should be playing.. I am not an expert so will leave this to someone else to explain. However this is more than enough to make me question the wisdom of compulsory schoolboy full contact rugby taught by non specialists.

I love rugby. I used to play as a child as did my siblings. However, my brother was injured in a "catastrophic" manner playing it.

I am not sure I would allow any future children to play it, and I'm not convinced they'd want to, knowing what happened to their uncle! In fact, or cousin has really struggled with it at school, he just can't throw himself in to it and his mum had to explain why before the PE teachers would understand.

Well clearly dh and I are highly irresponsible parents. DS age 13 and DD2 age 15 both play rugby. Both dh and I come along to cheer on a regular basis.

Do I think it should be compulsory? I think that we need to be looking closer at ensuring that there are correct coaching given and ensuring that all sports our children undertake are done so as safely as possible.

My rugby nuts ds LOATHES football yet he has to play it for a minimum of 1 term ever year. He is in a foul mood when he comes back having to have spent time doing stuff he hates. I am not going to ask for him to be excluded. I know of very serious injuries in football so to me it would along with Cricket and Lacrosse go under games that should be considered if they should be compulsory.

I think as long as we take down the risks. DS's school wont permit them to play without protective headgear and gum shields.

I have seen DS Coach really tear into the boys when he have not been ok with the manner in how they behaved. This I rarely see in other sports (note I said "I" rarely see not that it doesn't happen) I see dd really get put through some serious endurance training by her coaches and both clubs (they play different clubs) really put a lot of effort into building team spirit ensuring no one is left out and making sure they understand how to best protect themselves.

Ds school is similar however I would say they are more up to date with this on football as that is considered " the be all and end all " - much to ds' dismay.

My children play and they have had a great deal out of this. DS has a broken nose sustained during a rugby tackle. he is rather proud of it. I am less so but also well aware that what happened could as easily have happened in a football match (he was accidentally head butted)

DD has never sustained any injuries during it.

I think overall rugby has had nothing but a positive experience for my children and their friends I know who plays.

I think if we continue to permit football, tennis and cricket as compulsory then rugby should be too.

My boys play football and have dabbled with lots of other things; they are fairly into the whole team thing. My girls ride and swim and go to exercise classes. They get their team fix from youth theatre and performing arts. My DH calls it team sport for the totally unsporty.

Well I ride horses competitively as well as play rugby. I am currently eventing in the affiliated competitions - and that is far more dangerous. I have critical illness and life cover that includes injuries. Despite playing rugby at a relatively decent level, the insurers don't mind covering me for full contact rugby. They have a big issue with my eventing and I pay through the nose for excessive premiums.

However, sport gives pleasure, skills, lifelong friends, core fitness, discipline, passion. Riskier sport also has great adrenalin rushes associated with it. There is risk in all parts of life. But this is the kind of risk taking that has many, many emotional and physical benefits on the plus side.

Oh yes, and apart from a friend being paralysed from an innocuous seeming fall from her horse, the worst, life limiting injuries I've ever known have come from netball (MIL is virtually crippled from the knee injuries that she sustained and has had 6 ops to try to correct the damage. She struggles to walk more than a few hundred metres and can't run).

nags

Yes......as has been mentioned loads on here. No one is denying that many people enjoy risky sports. I used to do scuba diving. That's risky if things go wrong - but it's also great fun.

But should risky sport be compulsory? What concerns me is that I can't find any statistics on accidents and injuries? Do schools keep such records and if so, should parents be allowed to see them before making the decision to allow their child to participate?

Schools do risk assessments for school trips. They are paranoid about crossing roads etc. But they seem a bit blase about certain sports.

We keep records at my school, and my boys school also does, and the levels of injuries are low, other than normal bangs and knocks that you get in any sport, or even during the school day. Trips in ambulances are very rare and serious injuries ( those needing an overnight stay or more in hospital) very low.
Nags, surprised you struggle with insurance for eventing, I haven done BE for many many years ( inc back when they were part of BHS) and don't have any problems getting cover. You know there is some cover with your membership don 't you as well.

I'm with NFU as is horse, but think most of the other horse insurance companies offer cover.

The only 2 really serious sports injuries I know that have happened to friends have been

A friend who fell off a horse, the horse stood on his head and he was in a coma (aged 10)

A friend who was learning to pole dance. She fell backwards and broke her neck. Ended up paraplegic.

But I know plenty of people injured in school sports. But as I said, I used to scuba dive, sail,go rock climbing and walking in mountain ranges. Striding Edge and Crib Goch - has the potential to kill you.

Gosh, this thread scares me.

DS is 10 and at private school for now, and school rugby is much more dangerous than the club rugby he plays.

At schools they play all kind of weird rules, like contested scrums for 10 year olds (too dangerous at that age! RFU doesn't allow it, clubs don't allow it but any random bloody school can decide to just do it , visiting schools then just have to play to these rules...)

Broken thumb
No stitches
Few scratches

That's in the period of six years of DS playing - the whole team. I know it's anecdata but it makes me feel slightly better.

Rugby as a sport of course is risky. And tough on a rugby players body. But I am probably talking about professional and semi professional players here. Who play week in week out.

My DCs school is a rugby playing school but I have never heard of any serious and by that I mean a break upwards in the several years my DCs have been playing at that school. Whilst accidents do happen of course, in my experience ( and that includes club rugby )- its really not that common and quite notable when it does. I just do not think kids are really playing at that intensity and frequency for it to be a really regular occurrence.

It would be really interesting to have the actual stats on this because it has got me thinking. orlando I have always gone along with the idea that this is a very high risk sport but actually re the DCs It has been few and far between.

I do think things change after about age 16. The intensity and physicality really ramps up. And that is when I think the injuries really become more normalised. But by by age 16 its totally about people wanting to play themselves. Compulsory is long over.

The research is biased. She has an agenda and that is to prove that rugby is the most dangerous sport.

It's not compulsory. My eldest went to a state secondary school and played rugby for a term. They didn't have to buy some of the boys enjoyed it so they played it. My middle child attends a grammar school and they play rugby but then most of them play rugby outside if school. Ds plays for the school, a team and county. He loves it and would play every day. When the school rugby season is on he plays/trains 5-6 days a week.

No one on our teams has sustained anything more serious than a few scrapes, stud marks, etc and touch wood that will continue.

Dd plays hockey and netball and I've seen more injuries with those two sports than rugby. We attend rugby match at least once a week and have done for the last 5 years and can honestly say that no ambulance has been in attendance except for the drunken dad's Boxing Day match where they were all swigging sloe gin, whiskey and playing rugby. Someone dislocated his shoulder but that was a 40+ year old dad.

It really isn't compulsory so that point is lost. Sports should be encouraged at school and maybe I've just been fortunate that both secondary schools I have had experience of with my own dc have offered a wide variety if sports and appropriate coaching staff.

I think the stats is one key thing the OP is talking about. It's hard to discuss things and make choices without data.

The author in the article says that stats aren't collected nationally. I can't find any in the UK. If the RFU is not worried, then it should be prepared to collect and publish stats.

If a school seems to stand out for injuries, there should be questions asked.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. Proper data is evidence.

BabyGanoush - that is extraordinarily dangerous.

I strongly suggest you withdraw your son until that stops. Neither of my DSs had contested scrums until age 12 and even then strictly controlled.

Young boys are simply not coordinated enough or strong enough to control a scrum which is dynamic and unstable even with experienced players in it.

It's not compulsory

So you know that rugby is not compulsory at every single school in the country? How do you know that? Where is your evidence?

But, essentially, isn't this a case of rugby parents justifying the game because they want to, not because the game is justified?

I mean, if someone was to invent a sport for 8-15yos that involved equal risk and contact, wouldn't we all be on here saying it wasn't a good idea to introduce it into schools? It's because it's a bit posh, and because Buggins and Buggins Dad and Grandpa play that we all go along with it.

We're smart enough to think of other ways for boys to exercise with the same level of skill and adrenaline.

HelpGetMeOutofHere - why is her research biased? She's well funded by academic research grants, she'll need to justify it pretty thoroughly. She has a career in Public Health, not just a pet project.

It really isn't compulsory so that point is lost

I honestly don't understand how you can make that statement. Unless you know the policy in every single school in the country.

Just because it was not compulsory for your DC does not mean it's not compulsory elsewhere.

Just because no injuries have happened in a school does not mean injuries have not happened elsewhere.

Anecdotes are not data.

Because she has an agenda. Her son was injured.

The implication was that it is compulsory at all schools. Several posters here have said that it is not compulsory at their schools therefore it's not compulsory for all.

Posh?

You've never played rugby round here then.

And actually I'm def not smart enough to come up with a replacement.