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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To put DD into a special school- why are some people so against this?

70 replies

Whatdoido65 · 04/05/2015 01:46

I had to name change as a particular family member (who this post is about) regularly posts on this forum.

I have currently just put in an appeal to SENDIST to ask my LA to fund DD's placement at an independent special school.

Last night, my family members came to my house for a casual family dinner. Since I'm currently obsessed with specialist schools, appeals, SEN kids and their rights and so on. I thought this would be a perfect opportunity to bring up how I am getting on through this whole SENDIST appeal process, plus my family members have seem very uninterested about the whole SEN process that I'm going through.

So as I bring up the subject, my brother then asks what the appeal is about (even though I have told him countless of times, I am excited he is at least interested in what I have to say) I feed him in etc and he becomes outraged that I'm considering putting DD into a special school. He told me that I'm doing DD a "disservice" of putting her into special school, he also goes on that "I have given up on DD and if any of his children ever went into a special school he will be damned". He reckons and with my family's backing! that DD should stay at her mainstream school and learn to cope with the demands. He then starts to say that "DD only has a speech issue and this will correct itself with time". Well DD has a significant speech and language disorder with significant verbal dyspraxia of speech and because of her significant motor issues she has troubles eating. She has no behaviour issues and is average cognitively. But she is 5 and can only say 4 clear words!

I tried to argue with my brother, but he wasn't having any of it. He just kept telling me that I am making the worst mistake of my life and the reason the LA is refusing to pay for DD's funding at the special school is because they know DD has the potential to do well in mainstream?! He even said to DD "look your mum has low expectations of you and that's why she wants you to go to a special school".

I was furious, I haven't spoken to my brother since yesterday. My family have been very unsupported of my decisions. It was not an easy decision to think DD would be best suited at a special school. I looked at many schools before placing my judgement.

Even though DD has a full time statement at her current mainstream, I don't think mainstream will be able to meet her needs. How am I doing my child a disservice? I want her to get much help as possible, whilst she still quite young, so she is able to live a semi- independent life. Does she have to be 17 and still only speaking single words for my family to understand her significant needs.

I was literally crying all night yesterday, I was even doubting whether I was making the right choice for my DD to attend a special school.

Why are some people (like my family) so against special schools, I am sick of people's ignorance.

OP posts:
Imscarlet · 04/05/2015 02:00

It may be a different set up in the UK, but where I am, children who attend special schools have a moderate to severe learning difficulty. I'm sorry to disagree with you as I can see from your post that you have invested a lot of time and emotion into this decision and clearly you think you have made the right decision.

I have encountered a child with similar difficulties as your own who did well I a mainstream setting with support and has now moved out of the primary setting with their peers. This child has friends with common interests and a peer group. Yes, the child is a little bit different but not in a way that cripples them socially or academically.

Your child won't have 4 words forever you know. I can't imagine how it would feel to be a child in with average cognitive ability trying to negotiate life in a special school.

I wish you luck, whatever road you choose.

Cabrinha · 04/05/2015 02:04

Well, they're not specialists and if they're my sort of age, they'll have been brought up in a generation where educating in the mainstream and "inclusion" was all the rage.

I'm not saying mainstream is best - but I do think it's an approach that those who are lucky enough not to have to be informed about, will think is best.

My sister is considering leaving mainstream for one of hers. I kept quiet and listened, but honestly me (wrong) gut reaction was "but he'll be ostracised, it won't be a full curriculum, anyway he'll live in the mainstream world, he should be educated their in readiness". All ignorance, and I kept my mouth shut! And learned from her. But seriously, if you know nothing about it, special school sounds dramatic and scary, mainstream and inclusion sounds ideal.

So - if you're brother is otherwise a reasonable person, I'd considered letting things calm dons and giving him another chance - explaining to him why it isn't.

He absolutely should not have spoken to your daughter about your decision Angry but honestly, I don't think you were wise to discuss it in front of her either.

I hope you get the support educationally you need. Flowers

And I'm sorry that you're likely not to get the right understanding and support from your family, based on the disinterest you say your brother showed even before this argument Sad

Imscarlet · 04/05/2015 02:08

I'm trying to make out where it said that discussion took place in front of the child?

Cabrinha · 04/05/2015 02:22

End of paragraph 5 "he even said to DD..."

Perhaps I've assumed wrongly, but it read to me like the whole discussion and family dinner had the child present. The OP seems to present it as one incident.

Imscarlet · 04/05/2015 02:30

I missed that bit. I don't think it's an appropriate discussion to be having with the child present under any circumstances. I don't know Cabrinha, perhaps special schools are different in the UK, but it's not what I would choose for a child in those circumstances and I say that as a primary school teacher.

Elllimam · 04/05/2015 02:48

I think your brother was insanely rude and not at all tactful... but as previous posters have said there is a public perception of special schools as last resorts for children. I volunteered in one as a teenager and I have to say in the class I helped with there were no children who could say as much as four words. In saying that, that was a good while ago and you know your child and you sound like you've really looked into it. Good luck and hope you get the support you need.

quietlysuggests · 04/05/2015 02:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DuploTakingOver · 04/05/2015 03:13

I think it's your choice as a parent to make. I have 2 DC both with ASD. One will be going to mainstream and the other will hopefully be going to special school. I don't know if I am making the right decision, but this is my gut instinct on what is best for them. You know your DD better than anyone so stand behind your choices. Good luck with the appeal Flowers

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 04/05/2015 03:46

Sorry you're having such a rough time OP! It's horrid how some families can be when there is very real love and support that's needed.

Bottom line: ultimately you live with your child and have her best interests at heart.... While your family presumably feel they, too, have her best interests at heart... But you know her best!!

To me, your brother is doing the classic 'minimising' of someone else's, to you quite obvious, problems.

Presumably, he is seeing special needs education as an absolute stigma, with no possible advantages to your daughter??

I have no specialist knowledge of speech difficulties, but I do know clinically, across the board, similar clinical presentation (ie what is seen), can have different underlying causes, that often will require different specialist input. Or sometimes just watchful waiting, essentially waiting ans seeing what happens but at the same time closely monitoring them.

Your brother, it seems to me, is assuming that your DD's difficulty is something that will gradually 'reverse' ie as a maturational, developmental change. It may be, but conversely, it may be something that needs extensive professional input.

However, unless he is some sort of education specialist professional who has conducted extensive clinical interviews and testing with your daughter (for example ed psy/speech and language specialist,)... I assume notHmm.... he will have diddly squat understanding and knowledge of your DD's difficulties, and indeed the depth and breadth of these difficulties.

It is a classic mistake to make, assuming that something that 'looks' quite simple has a simple and easy-to-remedy cause.

There is a reason these professionals take many years to train Confused. If it is what that easy these decisions would be left to Joe Bloggs walking down the high st. He is just grandstanding.. (and bullshitting), which is crap and upsetting for you.. And ultimately, very unhelpful.

Years ago I worked in a special needs unit, it was interesting- the parents who were most against their child 'being somewhere like this' and the most vocal (actually a very good and well- respected unit with extensive trained special needs teachers wirh visiting specialist professionals ).... were often men, including grandparents /uncles etc... And to a man, they often had very little contact with the kid, eg a parent who had disappeared for years, or someone who saw their kid one Sunday a month to go to the park. They were largely clueless to the childs difficulties.( I hope this isn't too sexist, but it is my observation). I know that some of these men went to great lengths to hide their child's attendance at a special needs place. Some of the more hands on male carers would often sabotage appointments eg with ed psys, speech and language professionals as they wanted what THEY wanted, presumably a 'normal' child, without any recourse to the child's needs.

As you'll know, special needs education and inclusive education and all the issues around this, has been a hot potato for many years. There have been many advantages to inclusive education, but equally disadvantages.

Ultimately, you will have a strong idea of how your daughter will cope in each setting... Yes special schools are a different beast, but afaik they still have to abide by the national curriculum.

It is complete and utter bollocks for anyone to say the reason the LA are not funding is due to your daughter not needing this provision.... If this was the case, they would make reference to an educational psychologist and also any other specialist input professional, expert, reports.

Do what you think is best for your kid!. Hope you get to enjoy some sunshine on the BH!

Sending you a hug!

FishWithABicycle · 04/05/2015 04:18

Your brother was being an utter git, especially saying that to your DD.

BUT it was not at all appropriate to have such an argument in front of DD. A 5yo of average cognitive abilities certainly has the capacity to feel anxious about this sort of thing and should not be given this level of detail of why a decision is contentious, why there has to be an appeal because mummy and the doctors think one thing and the LEA think another.

YANBU to push for a special school place if that's what the specialist professionals who have assessed her are recommending, and if you didn't have to go to extraordinary lengths to achieve such recommendations (e.g. self funding private assessments rather than going through standard procedure, or picking and choosing multiple specialists until you found one with the right opinion)

A child with average cognitive abilities may well thrive at a mainstream school and may be utterly miserable in a special school. OR may be the other way around. It completely depends on the child. I'd put money on a specialist professional in children's education being better able to judge which than the child's uncle.

velocityofbeans · 04/05/2015 04:24

I hope you get your DD a place at the school YOU think is best for her needs. Specialist schools can work wonders, and as a parent of a child who needed the extra help, I can't understand the stigma attached to them. My dd had speech and language delay, (not even Mum until she was 6) and benefited enormously from both a specialist nursery and primary school where she got speech therapy every day, something no mainstream primary could have provided, even with the Statement in place. DD was able to go into a mainstream secondary school, btw, and take her gcse's with everyone else, then do a course at the local college..getting her to not talk is the issue now Grin

Good Luck with it all

Timetoask · 04/05/2015 05:29

Your brother does not understand your child's needs, he was being extremely unreasonable.
I am sorry you feel you need to justify you decision not only to tribunal but also to family, they should be supporting you.
I think people don't always understand that there are many different types of special schools, if your child has speech and language difficulties they will find it incredibly hard to access the curriculum to their full ability, trying to keep up with nt kids is frustrating and has a huge knock on their confidence (speaking from experience here).
A special speech and language school with the right support and delivering the curriculum in the right way will do wonders for your child.

lambsie · 04/05/2015 05:54

FishWithBicycle - If a specialist professional works for the LA they may not recommend what is the best option or even adequate option because of budget constraints or because it would mean a non LA school.

Mistigri · 04/05/2015 06:04

Putting your DD into a special school if you think it will best serve her needs is of course entirely reasonable. Having to appeal doesn't mean the local authority is right - I have a few friends with children with SN and I think it's fair to say that all of them have been failed in some way by mainstream schools even those who plainly do belong there. Of the two who have children in special schools, both had to go through the appeal process first and both have thrived in a specialist setting.

Where you're unreasonable is in attempting to discuss the issue with uninterested or hostile family members and then being surprised at the predictable outcome. You already know from experience that they are not especially interested and don't understand, so why bring it up? It just comes over as picking an unnecessary fight :(

paxtecum · 04/05/2015 06:18

Velocity: what an inspirationalal story.

caravanista13 · 04/05/2015 06:26

Special schools can be amazing! I really don't understand why some people cling to the belief that all will magically come right in mainstream. Ok - you get the possible benefits of mainstream roll models, but therapies etc are extremely limited whereas special schools have a wealth of specialist knowledge and facilities.

jeanne16 · 04/05/2015 06:28

I am a secondary school teacher and I have seen SEN pupils in mainstream schools. Most will have full time TAs with them. However in my experience they are almost completely isolated. They spend all day with their TA and are pretty much ignored by the rest of the pupils. At one school, a group of them would even hover outside the staff room door during break while their TAs were having tea. How is that beneficial to the pupils? However the official line was they were totally integrated into the school! I often wondered what their parents would think if they could witness this.

lambsie · 04/05/2015 06:40

Why weren't this group of pupils provided with somewhere they felt safe to go to at break times. Inclusion is about meeting a childs needs not just about tolerating their presence and expecting them to fit in.

MrsMcColl · 04/05/2015 06:46

How upsetting for you, OP. And how depressing that there is so much stigma attached to special schools. My daughter attends one, and it's an excellent environment for her - I don't believe that her needs would be understood and met in a mainstream setting.

People who dismiss the value of special schools need to understand that just being somewhere isn't the same thing as being fully included - 'geographical integration', I've heard it called. Full integration for a child with SEN with their peers in a mainstream school is a wonderful ideal - but too often it doesn't really happen for children with severe or complex needs. They are at the school, yes, but separate. If that's the alternative, I believe that a good special school is much more clearly in the child's interests. But the decision depends so much on the individual child and on the school(s) that are on offer.

At my daughter's school - where there are children with quite a range of needs and abilities - every child is fully included in everything, and there is a total expectation that they will participate. I don't think this would be the case for my DD at mainstream. She went to a mainstream nursery and was largely a spectator on the other children's activities - it made her miserable. Everyone was nice to her, but they treated her a bit like a pet. She has way more dignity at her special school.

OP you will have thought this through, and you know your daughter. It isn't anyone else's business. Put your energies into securing what your DD needs from your local council, not engaging with stupid people.

OneInEight · 04/05/2015 07:00

Let's face it mainstream is the cheapest option for LEA's and as they don't see the problems it causes the child or their teacher they will continue to propagate the myth that mainstream is always best. Fact is mainstream teachers do not have the time, training or often the right attitude to meet the needs of children with SEN such as your dd. Inclusion is far more about physical presence in a mainstream classroom and my ds's are far more included in their special schools than they ever were in mainstream. They are also a heck of a lot happier!

uggerthebugger · 04/05/2015 07:04

Your brother appears to be stuck somewhere in the 1970s. Special schools are very, very different these days.

If you want to make the effort to educate him - and in your shoes, I'm not sure I'd bother - then invite him to visit the indie special school with you. Invite him to read up on the crippling effect of untreated long-term language disorders. Invite him to read blogs like this one .

And if he doesn't bite, then keep yourself two post-code's distance away from this fool during the Tribunal process. Any adult with opposable thumbs who thinks that LAs allocate money to SEN on the basis of the actual needs of the child has no place in your Tribunal prep - and probably shouldn't be trusted to respond to e-mails asking for money from Nigerian royalty, for that matter.

My DSs are deaf, with significant language disorders. DS1 left a mainstream primary with a reading age of 6, thanks to a HT who treated him like roadkill on the path to an Ofsted outstanding grade. The primary school had shockingly low expectations - in our last meeting with him, the HT said "at least there's no point you worrying about GCSEs with a child like that!"

He's now at an indie special school, where he gets the support and friendships he needs. He'll start GCSEs next year. He's been entered for 8, he's expected to get C grades in all of them, and is likely to get A*s in some. He's never had higher expectations, and he's never been happier.

Whatever happens, know this - your brother would not last five minutes in your shoes. If he's not prepared to educate himself, he's not worth listening to.

MrsMcColl · 04/05/2015 07:07

Good post, Ugger!

JadedAngel · 04/05/2015 07:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMcColl · 04/05/2015 07:15

Totally and utterly agree that what the LA is proposing is no kind of guide to what your DD needs. ALL they want to do is not pay a single penny more than they absolutely have to. Amazed this needs spelling out to any grown-up with a brain. Your brother is clearly not on your side (or your DD's).

lambsie · 04/05/2015 07:22

To quote one professional "I cannot recommend what the LA cannot provide".