Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to agree with Farage?

121 replies

Sallyingforth · 03/05/2015 11:22

UKIP's policies and their candidates are generally revolting, but I had to agree with him when he said.
"This is wholly unacceptable in a civilised society"

The Labour party held a sexually segregated election rally, and with more seats for men than for women.

www.order-order.com/2015/05/02/everydaysexualsegregation

OP posts:
onedayiwillmissthis · 03/05/2015 16:56

YANBU

Coyoacan · 03/05/2015 17:59

I don't quite see what the problem is here? If you want to change the way Muslims do things, you have actually quite a lot in common with Farage, OP.

I would object if the women were made to sit at the back or stand while the men sat. But everyone looks comfortable and happy

Sallyingforth · 03/05/2015 20:04

But everyone looks comfortable and happy

Yes, those women really know their place. :(

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 03/05/2015 20:51

I'd a damn sight rather they were there, even in a way I bloody hate, than kept alone because it's against their beliefs to mix with men.

MerryMarigold · 03/05/2015 21:01

If you want to change the way Muslims do things, you have actually quite a lot in common with Farage, OP.

I agree with this. It's coming across as quite anti-Muslim, OP.

I'm glad women were encouraged to attend. And the seating being like that was just practical because more men were likely to turn up. I expect if it were a political meeting where UKIP were meeting more boozed up men would be attending too. It's just life.

SolomanDaisy · 03/05/2015 21:01

Well the Labour party are facilitating those women engaging with politics in a way that is comfortable to them (and acceptable in their community). I can't see what's terrible about engaging Muslim women in mainstream politics.

OrangeVase · 03/05/2015 21:05

I hate the double standards. As in we hate Farage because he is sexist - but it is fine if the Muslims do it.

We fight for equal rights and a liberal society - yet we encourage a religion that denies all of that - because we need to engage with them - ie we need their votes..

Stickledpink · 03/05/2015 21:09

Agree with orangeVase

HesterShaw · 03/05/2015 21:13

A broken clock is still right twice a day...

Ooh I like that and intend to use it forthwith.

JassyRadlett · 03/05/2015 21:16

I'm all for engaging Muslim women from the more extreme sects because I think it's s better way to show them there's an alternative and they have a voice, than keeping them locked up at home and be er hearing another idea.

How do you think it could be changed for the better?

I've said a million times I fucking hate that this sort of segregation exists in any religion (including some Jewish and extreme Christian sects). I'd like it to end. Where we disagree is where I think that only conducting mainstream politics in a way that excludes these women is going to achieve fuck all towards that goal.

SaucyJack · 03/05/2015 21:28

Yes, there's definitely a sensible conversation to be had here.

But it's not one that's going to be started by repeating Farage's Islamophobic, right-wing digs against the Labour Party.

BuriedSardine · 03/05/2015 21:31

Segregation, whether organised by the Labour Party or anyone else is abhorrent.

Those who don't mind seating plans based on genitals, are you cool with segregating by race?

In my mind, and I believe legally, it's the same thing.

And neither has a place in a civilised society.

ImperialBlether · 03/05/2015 21:38

This is a man who's going to bring back smoking in pubs, isn't he? So much for the health of the bar staff.

JassyRadlett · 03/05/2015 21:43

Has anyone here said they think it's peachy, Buried?

I think most of us are fine with neither segregation by gender or by race, regardless of whether imposed (utterly illegal as well as abhorrent) or by choice (still abhorrent to me).

No one's bothered to answer my question about how to change segregation in communities like this if it doesn't involve trying to find ways to engage the women?

I mean, I'm all for a good rant. But after that I quite like practical ideas too.

ouryve · 03/05/2015 21:44

How the hell can you say the women know their place? They're either side of a red carpet. They're in seats which appear to be of equivalent comfort and with an equivalent view of the front. And, if anything, there appears to be men standing around the sides and at the back of the hall, while all the visible women are able to sit down.

I'm not comfortable with segregation of the sexes, but doing this meant that women were able to feel included in the meeting. It's a cheap shot to pretend to care all that much about equality of the sexes when it provides an opportunity for a dig at non-Christian, particularly Islamic, religious beliefs and practices.

OrangeVase · 03/05/2015 22:17

It is not a cheap shot. It is a protest against what many people see as a regression, a loss of so much that was fought for -and the allowing of it, (not just in a political meeting but in schools and workplaces).

JassyRadlett · 03/05/2015 22:22

Ok, Orange, but what's your solution?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/05/2015 22:31

I agree with what Nigel Farage says a lot. For example

"My name is Nigel"
"The BBC is"
"There's a general election soon"

All reasonable things to say IMO.

On this thread I agree with JassyRadlett though.

OrangeVase · 03/05/2015 22:32

I'd be running for PM if I had a solution! But I do think that a mix of "it's against the law in this society" and " "let's see if we can work around this" is the way forward. Maybe that is what the labour party were trying to do - but I suspect it was closer to the "need the votes"

sorry - just wrote a long series of examples - but anecdotal and not helpful - so deleted.

Take each case as it comes I suppose.

OrangeVase · 03/05/2015 22:42

Let me try brief,(true), example.

Female PhD student not allowed to be in a room with a male unchaperoned. So she will not work with her allocated supervisor. This is blatantly sexist but is allowed because she is Muslim. (A non Muslim could not, (thank goodness), demand a male/female supervisor).

University is using extra staff to act as chaperones; lab assistants etc.

Who pays for the extra staff/shifts? (At the moment the university).

How do we explain to the male staff members and PhD research team that they are no longer allowed to work certain days/times unless a female is present. solely because they are male.

At the moment they are angry and it hampers their team's research but they dare not speak out for fear of being accused of racism. (and they like their colleague - she has much to offer the project)

A possible solution - allow female PhD student to provide and pay for her own chaperone - as long as she passes all the relevant checks for working at a university. Do not allow her to be sexist.

Not a great example but it is late and I have a headache. Will try again tomorrow.

InterOuta · 03/05/2015 22:48

OrangeVase, the solution is even simpler: the student can ask the supervisor if they can meet in the cafe (many supervision are in common areas) or if they are having a supervision in the supervisor's office, just leave the door half open. It's not complicated.

UncertainSmile · 03/05/2015 22:55

Ah, Farage is just a populist and opportunist. If he ever had to devise or implement anything, he'd shit himself.
His only role is to play Whack-A-Mole with the nutters in his party who pop up and say mad things.

JassyRadlett · 03/05/2015 23:22

Take each case as it comes I suppose.

I think we're on a similar page here.

But if the problem is 'we can't reach this community's women unless we can assure them of a segregated space', is the answer to include or exclude (removing biases about why political parties do anything at any time)?

I think on this one, I'd lean towards 'include', as a way of giving women access to mainstream political discussion and at least not at a separate event from the men, so that the women have equal access to information being given to men I their community, so that at least they were getting the information unfiltered and not second-hand.

On the other hand, I have objected vociferously to attempted imposition of segregation, such as the posters around a religious event in North London asking women to walk only on one side of the street during the festival. And I wouldn't give two fucks whose shibboleth not touching unclean women was.

So for me it's not clear cut. It depends on the nature of the problem that's trying to be solved, and the implications indifferent courses of action.

I was involved in a really interesting effort once that had as one of its goals giving more power and agency to women in traditional Pacific island communities. The first step - giving them access to the idea things could be different - was often the most challenging, but always the most important. That's the perspective I'm coping from - a big bleeding heart for the tastes of some, and probably a bit culturally imperialist for the tastes of others (ie imposing my Western values of equality on cultures with different values).

JassyRadlett · 03/05/2015 23:23

Sorry - essay!

Coyoacan · 04/05/2015 00:37

Do you still have same sex schools and colleges in the UK?

Still don't see what the fuss is about with this meeting?
The women are in just as good a situation as the men in terms of comfort, seeing and hearing the speakers, etc. The only people being discriminated against is anyone who wants to sit beside someone of the opposite sex during the meeting, which would be equally bothersome for a man or a woman.