To think that all the people who say "fold your buggy" are being a bit daft?

[Pyjamaramadrama]

I regularly read threads on here about buggies on buses and they get quite heated.

The consensus seems to be that buggies should be folded.

Before anyone says anything I absolutely think that wheelchair users and other disabilities need to take priority for obvious reasons.

However the type of prams for newborns would be nearly impossible for a parent on their own to fold while holding a baby and possibly shopping etc. it's much easier with a toddler who can stand and a stroller which can be easily folded. But you simply cannot put a newborn in a stroller. I'm pregnant with #2 and I've searched for the most compact, easy to fold pram, but I still wouldn't fancy trying to board a bus with a floppy newborn while trying to fold pram and negotiate my bags.

Lucky for me I drive but I can remember being in the predicament with my firstborn of having to get the bus on older style buses and I simply couldn't do it, I had a lie flat pram where the pram needed to be removed to fold the chassis, packs of nappies and formula and newborn ds, I had no Internet access at the time so no online shopping and I ended up in tears once trying to board a bus and dropping everything and the driver and passengers just staring at me.

Also perhaps it is just where I live but all the new buses now have buggy and wheelchair zones so there is room for everyone most of the time.

As I'll say again wheelchair users do come first as ultimately a parent could probably walk if necessary, but why do some people seem to be so against anything which makes new parents lives easier? Maybe they've forgotten what it's like or haven't had to manage the bus alone with newborn.

Oh and my parents and grandparents reckon it was a nightmare with the old buses before buggy zones as they simply couldn't board the bus with a pram.

In the late 80s when I was in a pram - yes there were no accessable buses but there was so much more available locally that walking wasn't an issue.

Where I live now there's very little as big supermarkets mostly priced them out but when I was younger there was a post office, a local shop, a butchers, a couple of banks, a decent market etc it's all takeaways and an off license now, only the pie shop/bakery remains and that's on reduced hours.

Buses needed to improve because local services reduced.

What I can't stand tho is people with shopping trolleys are never asked to move for wheelchairs in my area then cause a stupid blockage and the bus drivers who only allow 1 wheelchair or pram on when there's clearly room for one wheelchair and 3 prams without taking up any aisle space.

With all these "buggy friendly" buses or wheelchair spaces not usually required for that purpose it seems we have forgotten how to help each other.

20 years ago I travelled by bus a lot and parents expected to fold (although they may have planned their journeys differently) and I would usually offer to help if someone with a pram was getting on or off the bus.

szeli if that's the case campaign local newspaper and/bus company for more hop on hop off type buses or vote in elections for the party willing to look at this. Years ago when I lived elsewhere we had this problem and 2 hop on hop off bus routes were introduced in the same area. Then the tram after that and then london overground (ginger tube line). I know that general public campaigned in part for these bus routes.

I agree re trolleys... Everyone should be asked to move down and upstairs on buses apart from wheelchair users. I've seen parents with kids who could go on laps in rush hour when there's been a wheelchair and 2 buggies and shopping trolley (not unusual) and the people who never move upstairs!

Where I live in lucky as we have a high street with normal shops and out of town supermarkets further away. Eg exmouth (as example) big supermarket (co op) but bigger cheaper one a car and bus ride away and a bit remote. Again lobby for what you want. They lobbied in exmouth against a huge asda on the estuary but it may have been handy. The town centre was regenerated though.

Again it's planning and consideration. An old person with a shopping trolley on your bus may have multiple illnesses compared to your new mum ones but understanding goes a long way.

That's just it longestlurker, I've seen people say on threads that buggy zones should be banned and parents shouldn't be allowed on the bus if they can't fold their buggy. I find that really small minded and hateful and almost as bad as an idiot who would t move for a wheelchair user.

I have a Jane, Thingummy. It is so easy to push and steer, even with one hand. I chose it because of its manoeuvrability, and because the carseat part of the travel system could lie flat while fixed to an isofix base in the car. In fact I also chose a smaller lighter Jane carseat, for short journeys, because it was chosen by Which as the safest carseat on the market. It's perfect for the car. It's not light though, and while it's easy to fold once you remove the bit with the baby in, you definitely can't do it one handed, and the chassis weighs a tonne. If I'd had an unscheduled c-section and needed to use public transport, I'd have been shafted. It's not always a case of poor research.

Though since there is no public transport to my village, I'd have been shafted anyway... In fact, I had terrible SPD and a fractured coccyx after giving birth, so barely went anywhere for a good four weeks after he was born.

Many more people say on threads about folding that it should be first come first served and they would refuse to fold, too.

When my DS2 was a baby, he had a feeding tube and a breathing tube. He had to lie flat on his stomach, as any other position meant his airway would be unsafe.

He had multiple hospital appointments in London, every month. There is no way I would ever attempt to drive into central London, therefore I had to struggle on public transport.

Every time we went out he would need at least one feed, because he was on 3 hourly feeds, via the tube and pump. So I had to cart all the gear around for the feeds - pump, tubes, syringes, ph papers, spare tapes, and of course all the usual nappies. Plus spare changes of clothing and pram sheets, as he had such severe reflux that he would normally vomit up most of the feed a few minutes after it had finished. All this stuff was in a big bag under the pushchair. Along with his lever arch folder of medical notes/letters. So yes, I had a big un-public-transport-friendly buggy. There was no way I could have taken my DS2 out and folded the buggy on a bus.

I know people on this thread will say oh yes, but we didn't mean people like you - and I know that 99.9999% of people with big buggies on buses won't have this going on. But the thing is, when my son was lying face down in the carrycot, with the hood up, to stop people staring you couldn't tell he had all this going on. He just looked like a "normal" baby.

People with the "of course all mothers should fold pushchairs and should only have crappy little buggies on buses, otherwise you're a selfish cunt" attitude are exactly the reason why I didn't get on buses, but would instead walk for 40mins+ at a time from the station to the hospital, often through pouring rain, as I hated the attitude and tuts I would get from ignorant fuckers people on buses.

Well that's wanky fanjo, obviously, but the op said in her opening post that she would fold for someone using a wheelchair and still people said she should use a sling, online shop, walk, buy a leas suitable pram.. seems a bit mean spirited.

I think things have changed a lot since I was doing this in the 90s and it's definitely a change for the better that people can wheel their buggies onto a bus if the space isn't needed by someone in a wheelchair.

Maybe that has led to people choosing buggies that are bigger or not so easy to fold because they generally can take them on the bus and don't expect to have to fold them.

Because we all used to have to fold before we got onto a bus, there was much more of a culture of handing the baby over to someone nearby to hold while you sorted out the pushchair. People generally seemed quite chilled about it. You'd do it when you saw the bus approaching in the distance.

I also used to love my Maclaren. Where to put it wasn't an issue as you could just hook it over your arm like a big brolly. I admit that I did my shopping in dribs and drabs though, so I never had more than a couple of bags, plus the baby, plus the folded buggy. If my children had been in a double, I would have struggled much more.

Personally if I couldn't fold I'd get off for a wheelchair user.

I am seeing another side to this though that wheelchair users may avoid buses too and really struggle for fear of not being able to get on.

I get that for many parents there are other options available and difficulties are short lived.

There are so many different scenarios though such as the pp, parents with twins, mums who've had c sections, hidden disabilities.

I think it depends where you live. I have a pushchair, I have never had to so far, the buses are not usually full to the brim. I wouldn't be able to fold it and hold DS at the same time. I don't think I could physically do it on my own.
Luckily I don't need to get buses very often as I walk most places, but when I do i try to avoid rush hour or busy times so it's usually not an issue, even if there's another buggy on already there's room for two on our buses.
If a wheelchair user got on after me, I think I would rather get off the bus and wait for the next one - it would genuinely be easier than trying to fold it single handedly.
I get where you're coming from OP. Folding is sometimes easier said than done. I wouldn't fold unless I had to and was in the way of other passengers.

Yabu.

I'll show you Again The kind of shit disabled people have to readEVERY DAY so you can see just how boring it's getting. Not to mention downright nasty.

Op I agree with you.

With a young baby I would get off for a wheelchair. Far easier to wait for the next bus than faff about with a baby and folding a pram, which is not pretty tough.

You can get maclarens which lie flat and are suitable from newborn, but personally I prefer a better supported, parent facing pram at that age.

When dd was little I also still had terrible SPD so wouldn't have been able to fold a pram on my own either.

Bishop your post doesn't relate to the OP. Why do you think it does?

People who've said parents shouldn't get on in rush hour. I avoided it where I could but I went back to work when ds was 9 months old.

I had to get two buses to the nursery and even with a Maclaren it wasn't easy with ds nursery bag, my work things.

The worst bit was people tutting as I held the bus up then the driver speeding off as I walked up the aisle carrying baby.

No one should be tutting. that's just rude. If two mins for someone to fold a buggy and sit down is too much and is making you late, well get an earlier bus as that's their problem not yours.

I can't abide bus drivers who just floor it the second the doors shut as I've seen several people both old and children nearly go flying.

If that happens please complain.

My Bugaboo can be folded but the "top part" - whether it be in carrycot or sitty uppy mode will still take up a seat / significant space.

Baby can't go in my cheap stroller.

ETA I will always happily get off the bus should a wheelchair user get on!

bishop did you read the OP?

We don't need any more super we just need the drivers to be aware they're driving one!

Yes I did, thanks.
I've even been there, with a 14 mo non walker and newborn in a sling using a bus post cs.

I still wasn't selfish enough to think my short term inconvenience was in any way comparable to the lifelong inconvenience wheelchair users will face because parents can't use their imagination and consider the effects of their actions.

That newborn in the sling is now 10 and a wheelchair user, as is his younger sister. It was far easier with the maclaren and sling than it is now.

I get sick of these threads but I still have to post because if nobody says anything the assumption that abusing disabled facilities is ok will grow and make life even worse for my family.

bishop that post in no way relates to the op!

I live very rurally (can't walk to a shop or a bus stop unless it's a full day hike for there and back, esp if I had a toddler walking...). I drive. I have a car. I would not have wanted to move here without a car.

But people's circumstances change fatlazy - post c section, for example, many women are told not to drive for 6 weeks. I for one never expected to end up with an unplanned c section for dc 1, but nevertheless it happened... Other people develop health problems which stop them driving and make upping sticks and moving to a more convenient location financially impossible, but never envisaged that when they chose where to live years or decades earlier.

It strikes me that on MN there is often an attitude that women have rights which must be fought for, but that mothers in the mother role hinder this and must be pushed down and told to be meek, be grateful things aren't as bad as they "used to be", suck it up, move to the back of the queue, move aside, don't be a martyr to your children (don't work around the needs of your children to eat/ sleep at certain times in order to reduce both their stress and discomfort and your own) but do be a martyr to the whims of other adults who want you and your children to attend events at times and in locations and ways that will suit them but make your life hard). Mothers are non women, non people - even if disabled themselves they must get off the bus and stand in the rain if not a wheelchair user, or stay at home if physically unable to fold a pram (how dare you leave "disabled woman" territory and muddy the water by becoming a "mother" - get in "mother" mode and be meek - because if you don't choose the most inconvenient and physically and psychologically uncomfortable option you are "entitled"...

bishop the op did not abuse disabled people.

Just because you were able to manage, does not mean everyone else can. Surely you would be able to appreciate that everyone's circumstances are different?

For example I had severe spd so was unable to fold a pram. I would have however just got off the bus had a wheelchair user needed the space.

But who is saying that? If a wheelchair user got on I would happily get off the bus. If the bus is not full and there are no wheelchair users on board I don't see why people with prams should need to fold them.
I believe it's also the drivers call and I'm pretty sure if a wheelchair user got on the bus people with buggies would be told to fold them.