How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

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Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

Christian life involves asking God to forgive ones sins, which does predict that one will commit them in the first place.

So, do what the fuck you like with no regard to the consequences to others, all because of the weakness of the flesh and the bad influence of the Devil, then go to confession and say a few Our Fathers and Hail Marys, which render the atrocities that poor helpless little you has commiited AOK. Sounds like a wonderful way to live, Dora.

I think that's sort of the point Dora us making our

*is

I don't think you can just declare yourself to be a Christian if you don't practice as a Christian.

The priests who abused children are not Christians. They haven't even got the basic principles right. They just got themselves into a position of power, using the Christian label as a smokescreen, so they could abuse and do whatever they liked.

is it not part of forgiveness

it is owning up to what you have done

this is what we do when we punish people by taking away their freedom, many believe in rehabilitation (I certainly do that is owning up to and taking responsibility for your actions) but that comes from someone makes changes and accepting the awful truth of the harm they have done and having to live with that (as bad as living with the abuse I doubt it)

not just saying god I am sorry for what I did if you feel nothing and you believe you know you are going to hell

It's an important question for those with faith, OP. How can we possibly believe in a God who is good and loves us?

I firmly and passionately believe in God and experience God as good, loving and graceful. This does not mean I can provide answers to these huge questions of why, and suspect if I tried they would sound trite and inadequate.

There's a bit if poetry in the NT which talks about creation groaning, waiting to be righted once again. I think our world is off balance, fallen, groaning to be released. And in this time, bad stuff just happens. I don't think God sends earthquakes or cancer or war, it happens or people decide for it to happen in the latter case. Happens because the world is skewed and happens because of evil.

This goes no way toward providing answers, I know. I'm not trying to justify it to myself, either. I'm well aware of the problem of theodicy and wrestle with it constantly, but it has never yet stopped my faith. It's come close, but in the end my experience of God has been that of lives transformed to the good, of grace in the face of the most hideous circumstances, of overwhelming love apparent in the darkest of times.

I agree with Mrs De Vere that people say crap about God's design when it comes to suffering. They say it is for a reason, or he wanted that child back (ugh) or for punishment (even more ugh). The fact is, the shit stuff happens. I do not try to justify God's purpose in it, but simply ask where I can see God in it and what God wants us to do about it. I can sit and theorise all I like about why this thing has happened in Nepal, but if I am not doing all I can to help then I am not honouring my God.

I'm sorry I can't answer, op. I can only give my experience of hope. Many of you think I'm utterly deluded. That's ok. I'm fairly rational and a thinking person. Have I put this part of my mind to sleep, hidden it away in fear of what may happen if I bring it to light? I don't think I have. I think I face it full on, and still can't lose this unswerving hope I have. others say I must have this faith as a comfort blanket. It's really not that comforting, actually, when looking at questions like these - it's starkly difficult.

It'd be a lot easier to not believe, I sometimes think. But I simply cannot, and do not wish to, for there are depths of wonder, beauty and peace about this faith in this God.

Interesting conversation about grace and forgiveness. I get that this is one aspect of the Christian God that people think is so unfair - that those who have committed the most heinous of crimes can be granted forgiveness. But I think about my children, who I love so much, with my life, and hope that I could forgive them for anything because of my love for them. Forgiveness does not mean excusing that person and belittling their crime, but it's an act of love and grace towards a person.

I think if someone is truly reaching out to God and following Jesus, they will not see forgiveness as a get out of jail card, but rather strive to act in such a way that honours God and honours others. Those who think confession absolves and they can then carry on as before are mistaken and not holding to the Christian principles they pay lip service to.

God isn't benevolent because he is an imaginary, man made invention. As Richard Dawkins so eloquently put it in his book 'The God Delusion' .....

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully".

'So called Christians who have done terrible things are not Christian' - that's not what the Bible says Mermaid. We never know who has repented and received forgiveness and who hasn't. Thankfully it's not for us to decide.

Man made god, god didn't make man.

Humans invented their gods in an effort to answer the questions 'why do bad things happen to good people?', 'why are some people better off than others?', and 'why does the sun come up in the morning?'. All religions are about the control of power, investing it in the interpreters (priests, vicars, imams etc.) of the 'holy' books. Religion is a way for those with the power to keep those without it under control - ok, you suffer in this life, that is god's way of testing you, you will receive your rewards after death. You shouldn't attempt to change god's holy plan, just listen to what his priests tell you to do, do it, and all will be well.

Be assured that if you don't understand why something has happened, it is all a part of god's plan, and you're not qualified to understand it. He works in mysterious ways, after all. Don't 'covet' the worldly wealth of others - it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to enter heaven, so take comfort from that when you're trying to make ends meet whilst reading about multi-billionaires in the DM.

We are all (well, most of us) afraid of dying and of losing loved ones - but religions tell you that death is really just a door to a better place, where you'll be together with those you've lost - it's the ultimate comfort. This in itself wouldn't be so bad, apart from the fact that you have to spend your entire life beating yourself up for 'sin' in order to earn this comfort. You have to be subservient to your religion and follow its rules - you have to suspend your disbelief and take everything on 'faith' because reason and logic just won't cut it.

The fact is, the universe doesn't require a god to exist, there is no evidence for a god, there is simply wishful thinking and indoctrination. We have discarded so many gods and religions over time (anyone still worship Thor, or Osiris?) - the current ones are no more true than the ancient ones. Gods were created by humans, not the other way around. Christianity, Islam, Judaism and all the others will eventually fade - maybe something else (Scientology? lol!) will come to take their place, although I live in hope that reason will win out.

This is why it's an exercise in futility to try to explain events such as the Nepal earthquake in terms of god or religion. They are human constructs, they aren't real. Science does have the answers - tectonic plates 'n all that. Nothing else makes sense.

I'm human. I fail. I make mistakes daily. But I am still loved. That's pretty awesome. No living Christian can ever come close to the perfection that God showed us through Jesus. But we keep trying, and he keeps loving. It's about an individual, personal relationship with God. Not just the 'hail Mary's' (especially as I'm not Catholic!) Some may call me deluded, daft, easily led. That's fine. A lot of people also call me calm, peaceful and loving. That's just as fine.
God is so ready to love and be loved. There is so much more to walking with Jesus as a friend than "religion". You cannot lump all Christians in together.

It'd be a lot easier to not believe, I sometimes think.

I disagree.

It is absolutely a lot easier to believe that when we die, there is another life/happy place, and that there is some natural karma that justly separates who gets in and who doesn't.

The hardest thing for me, and I'm sure a lot of other atheists, was taking the blinkers off and concluding that, once we die, that is it.
I would never take the belief of an afterlife away from someone, it brings them comfort.
But that my wonderful best friend died and is no where but buried in the ground in a graveyard in the north east is the most difficult thing I have ever had to come to terms with. It is not easier, believe me.

Furrydogmother nail. head.

Science can't explain why bad things happen to good people, (or good and bad). The fact that these rocks move and those ones don't may not be enough for some people.

"If someone calls themself a Christian, but does not live a Christian life, is not a Christian. So any so called Christians who have done terrible things are not Christian."

Fabulous Christian cop out again! It's like the "anything good that happens is because God- anything bad is because free will" argument you hear so often.

Surely if there is a Heaven, which I believe there is, it will be very far removed from what life here on earth is like, we can't imagine and we will never know till we die what it is like, we surely can't expect life on Earth to be anything like it. Surely this life is one of trials and suffering(which we all have to different degrees), otherwise what is the point of being here. I believe we are here to learn, and we will never know true perfect happiness until we go back to our Creator. These are my beliefs and I don't expect to be ridiculed for them.

I am a practising Christian, however...

...my belief in God is that He does not sit zapping and controlling things...

My belief is that God has put us on earth... but we are our own responsibility. Illness, death, crime, is not God, it is the nature of the human body that it will expire. Illnesses happen to the human body, not through God punishing someone, but because illnesses happen.

I strongly believe we are responsible for our own actions, how we we behave, our choices, and when we pass, we will have to stand by and justify our actions.

Simplistic? possibly, but I cannot say and earthquake is God's doing, it is the nature of the planet that it will have faults and change.

There are good people in this world, thereare evil people in this world, there are rich and there are poor, whether that is a person's own choice or it is how they have been born and treat in society... we are responsible for hpw we live and for teh planet that we live in. I think it's a cop oyutto look up and blame / ask God for interventions. We're trusted and expected to look after ourselves and others.

I think you can say he or she does not fit my idea of a Christian. But, that's about as much as you can say about it. The Pope can excommunicate some of them, but appears not to if they abuse boys. (I'm not quite sure why not).

For me, it is indeed easier not to believe. It just makes life simpler. I live this one life that I have been lucky enough to live as if it's just that, the one life I have, because I know that I'm not going to get another chance at it.

I accept that religion can provide comfort for some, but that doesn't make it true.

I'm so sorry about your dear friend, werk.

I can see that it might seem easier because it gives us a hope for eternity, and yes it does give that hope, but I'm not sure that eases things so much in this life. Faith is surely redundant if it is only about the life after, as much as it is if it is only about this life.

I have a hope for eternity with God, but doesn't mean I can get my head round what that means at all, apart from the certain fact that it doesn't involve clouds and harps, unless you have a particular passion for such, I suppose.

but that doesn't make it true

It does, if religion is a story which makes life easier for you, and has a Church built up around it, which is what I happen to believe. Depends on what you mean by it. To me, it, means the Church.

I'm athiest. There isn't a God.
The question of natural disasters and genuine evil are among the reasons I don't believe. There can't be an all-knowing, all-powerful and benevolent God. It's not possible to know of suffering, have the power to change it choose not to without being an arse hole. These are the Gods of organised religion. I went to a catholic school (my mun was catholic) and always found it that God cared if two women got married but couldn't care less if a Nazi lived in luxury. I don't see how the problem of evil can be overcome when it comes to believing in God.

Fabulous Christian cop out again! It's like the "anything good that happens is because God- anything bad is because free will" argument you hear so often. Another view point is, "another catastrophe, let's have a scapegoat...God. All the good things in life, the beauty of the planet, the changing seasons, the miracle of birth, the sun and the moon and the oceans......what about them?
Makes me sad how people are so ready to rant about God ( which means they must think he exists or why mention him) but cannot praise him for everything that is good in the world.