How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

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Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

"Faith is a choice, not a fundamental need such as food and water."

As a totally not religious person I'd actually say that there does seem to be some sort of fundamental need for religion at a personal and social level - what else would explain the existence of spiritual beliefs in almost every culture since the dawn of time?

As for these threads being important activism, how? They are always among the like-minded and never produce anything tangible

I didn't know that the NHS pays fur chaplains so I've found it useful.

I used to be a christian and having access to message boards like these sowed the seed of my deconversion so such discussions are important for personal beliefs which go on to inform public action. You can't assume that it's pointless to discuss it. (Even if it was why would that matter)

Just because something is pervasive doesn't mean it is necessary though.

The thing is though, anyone has the human right to believe what they want, and I would fight for that right for you to hold those beliefs, but as an atheist, I also have the human right not to have people forcing their faith/religion down my throat.

For anyone questioning their beliefs, please watch AronRa, Matt Dillahunty, and the Atheist Experience on YouTube. The hosts are normally great at debating religion intelligently, but when you see some of the callers they get, you can also see why they get irate when the callers are being wilfully ignorant.

BTW Christopher Hitchens, Dan Barker, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Richard Dawkins and Bill Nye (The Science Guy) are all good to watch on YouTube and even better when you see the debates they have with the likes of Ken Ham, Ray Comfort, Matt Slick and William Lane Craig. The debates are fantastic and are good for making people think about religion and it's horrors.

Don't expect much out of Cap though, she has been shown many times that opting in to voluntary worship would be much fairer, but she still insists that forcing people to opt out and possibly stigmatise themselves is a much better idea hmm

Oh, BigD, after all this time you still get me wrong! Your view of what I believe is becoming a 'straw man' all by itself.

Straight from the 'horse's mouth' here:

I would like everyone to make a choice, religious or otherwise, for their child/themselves at an appropriate age, regarding how the time given over to worship is spent - with Christian worship being one of these options. (I have discussed this at length on dedicated threads).

So it's not because the majority don't agree with you then?

I've not seen any polling, so we're both just guessing.

But with around 35% (or similar, will check later) of Britons believing in any deity, it doesn't feel like it's catering to the majority - and would be better funded by faiths themselves. I'd rather see this cut than nurses or mental health services...

And yes, I think raising and discussing issues is important. It doesn't need a resolution. What 'tangible' product would satisfy you? I often learn things, have my views chalkenged, and sometimes I change my mind based on better arguments than mine.

Jassy - 35% is still a substantial proportion of the population and again, why cut something that is of benefit to those who use it, when it would do nothing whatsoever to solve the far, far greater issues within NHS funding, issues that impact everyone.

It's also another worrying argument to say if something doesn't serve the majority, then it shouldn't be funded.

As for the value of these threads, they always seem to follow a similar pattern to me, but they aren't for my benefit. Something offline other than the odd link to the NSS would be something tangible.

re hospital chaplains, remember that a large proportion of hospital beds are occupied by the elderly and a higher percentage of the elderly population would identify as Christian. The NHS will fund that which is evidenced to improve recovery times. Many elderly people sit in hospital beds for days on end with very few visitors. I have seen many faces light up when a friendly chaplain pops by for a chat and/or offers to pray with them.

I would suggest that 35% is a wild over-estimation.
Only 6% of UK citizens regularly attend church. Many of these so called christians are "nominal" christians.
When census forms were required my parents would describe themselves as church of Scotland Christians- as would many other families in our close neighbourhood.
We did not have a bible in the house, god was never discussed, I was never taught tlassed as a christian family.
I suspect a lot of those 35% described fall into this couldn't give a damn/sit on the fence type christianity.

I want to know why did God made those little worms in Africa that borrow through children's eye balls before laying eggs inside for them to hatch and then eat their way out? What is the point in that??

I'd say that was out of order.

Only one God, and that's you.. If you worship anyone, worship Mother Nature, 100% returns gaurentee I bet the Christians can't offer that...

God has higher plans that we are too thick to understand.
That is why he is happy to watch children die of starvation, be abused or die agonising deaths.
It is boring being all powerful, he has to have some amusement, and he tired of pulling the wings off flies.

"Many elderly people sit in hospital beds for days on end with very few visitors. I have seen many faces light up when a friendly chaplain pops by for a chat and/or offers to pray with them"

Another example of Christians casually expecting a privileged position in society. What about the many elderly people who are of other faiths or none? Why should Chrisitans get special treatment?

The NHS will fund that which is evidenced to improve recovery times.

Sadly, no. No evidence base on this one. (And remember, the NHS also finds homeopathy).

Many elderly people sit in hospital beds for days on end with very few visitors. I have seen many faces light up when a friendly chaplain pops by for a chat and/or offers to pray with them.

Grand. If the NHS is funding it, could it be for inclusive support workers so that everyone's faces can light up, rather than providing a service that excludes the majority?

35% is a substantial proportion of the population

Well, that's people who say they believe in any deity. Not just the Christian one. Interesting assumption there.

I've checked - 35% is the average of all polls (which always hover around that point). The most reliable is a 2011 YouGov poll that showed up 34% as being deists or theists. The polling sample was enormous, bigger than any poll I've ever seen - and as I say, it lines up with other polls.

It does make me wonder when 60% identify as 'Christian' in the Census. Lots of Christians who don't believe in any deities, let alone the Christian one.

On what the NHS should fund - we all know further cuts to the NHS are coming. This is something I'd rather see cut before most other services - if it's helpful, why can't the various faiths provide it for their members?

Although I'm an atheist, I don't really object to the NHS funding hospital chaplains. They must make up a tiny proportion of the NHS's budget (which is enormous), so if they bring comfort to some people, I can't mind that much. Obviously it would be nice if the NHS funded people who could give comfort and support to non-believers too.

Hack, I'll admit I'd be more comfortable of the latter was the case. I think it's the 'special service only provided for the religious' that bothers me.

And it might not bother me as much if there weren't the wider 'Christians get special treatment and privileges' context in this country.

So figures which support your viewpoint are cast iron, but the Census doesn't, so it must be somehow dubious?

Chaplains will see anyone who asks to see them. Many people, even if not hugely religious like speaking to someone who is generally a good listener, not connected to the medical team or to family.

However there are increasingly humanist chaplains too: www.chelwest.nhs.uk/your-visit/chaplaincy

From that link you can click through to see the large number of volunteers supporting the chaplaincy services. Nothing to stop more humanists volunteering too.

Sorry if I misled - I'm not at all disputing the census, simply commenting on large numbers who identify as Christian when presented with a list of options, without believing in the Christian god. It's an interesting one on what actually makes someone of a particular religion - and how people react when they see a list of options (for example, I know my atheist mother often still writes 'CofE' on forms, part out of habit and part out of cultural association rather than having any religious belief.

Glad to see so many volunteers. As I've said, if be thrilled of that's how the entire service is staffed in future.

To further clarify in case not crystal clear - both figures seem pretty authoritative and reliable though with quite different approaches to data collection and question approach - the Census question is designed to be quite open and more about identification than practise or belief.

It raises an interesting question - what is a Christian (Muslim/Jew/Sikh/etc)?

The other interesting point from the census was those identifying as Christian decreased by 10% or so over the decade, with an almost exact corresponding increase in those reporting no religion. There are also 7% who didn't answer the question.

I wouldn't expect too much of BigDorrit, she seems to have some very strange notions, like thinking that Christians believe that god wrote the bible and that Christians do not think it is very relevant.