How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

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Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

I just asserted you cannot (as in one cannot) police people's beliefs, Binky. I was stating a fact, not making a complaint.

And as far as calling God names, those names have no meaning to me, if the name caller does not believe God is real. It is affectively, from the name caller's own perspective, arguing over someone else's imagination.

what would you like Christians to do? Change what they believe? Fight your battles for you?

You don't need to change your belief in God to think that belief shouldn't confer structural advantage, as the poster just after you demonstrated.

I'm not the most politically active at all, but I have joined things or responded to consultations to make changes when I don't think things are fair, even when they would not benefit me.

Of course I don't expect ChristiNs to change their beliefs. I do expect them to recognise injustice and be opposed to it. Because it sort of goes with the territory..............

But by stating it mid discussion, you are implying strongly that someone is doing that though.

So it seems you don't disagree with me on either point then. Fine. A bit of a waste of time but fine.

I did not actually say I wholeheartedly agree with the Status Quo, as it is, Binky. However I do not want a wholly secular society either.

I make a stand for what I believe in, and have when I have been given the opportunity and seen change too (on different issues mostly in the educational arena).

Currently there are some things that I just do not feel strongly enough about to make a stand. The House of Lords is one of these things. I do believe in inclusive school admission criteria and my DC will be attending an inclusive, comprehensive, secondary school.

I am opposed to injustice Hak. However I suspect what I believe is unjust differs to what you believe is unjust, since we know our opinions differ.

"
ilovefilter how do you reconcile this belief in karma with a one year old suffering then dying of leukeamia yet a nazi war criminal escaping and enjoying a full life? I don't mean to be antagonistic, I'm genuinely interested whenever I hear someone say this as I simply couldn't "square that circle" myself. If God is the force for good do you also believe in a devil?"

I'm sorry but you must have misunderstood my post. I didn't say that god is a force of good at all and I didn't say that karma (in my private , personal reflection on this concept) means that people bring illness and misfortune on themselves. In fact I even hate it when people say that illness or infertility is due to stress and indicating that if they were just more easy going, they'd be all fine. Children being sick is horrid and they certainly didn't bring it on themselves . However, I do think that throughout a persons life course, people's thoughts, deeds and relationships do sort of materialise in their bodies and behaviour. I think if someone constantly harbours selfish or 'mean' thoughts eventually this is reflected in their facial expression and body language as well as relationships. I also think this can be passed on through generations I.e the grandparents experiences impact, to a bigger or smaller degree, great grandchildren.

In terms of God, I don't think of god as a human type of thing. More that life or nature exists and that life itself and everything that happens in the world is part of this 'system' I wouldn't worship this 'system' but be open and reflective about it and try an connect to it. I am not religious at all but I do suspect that there is more to life than meets the eye.

Capsium how would you feel if the HOL said they were now going to allocate a certain amount of seats to leaders of the Muslim faith in the UK just because they were Muslims and high up in that organisation? If you would be happy then where does it stop? Sikhs getting a set number of seats along with Hindus and Jedists? If you would not be happy that reveals your hypocrisy.

head I'd cope.

This is why I stopped believing in God.
And I was told by an evangelical Christian friend, that things like this happened because there was fault lines in the earth created by mistake, when God created the world. It is those fault lines that cause bad things to happen to innocent people. Although I don't believe that.

So what purpose does this worry serve? Do you expect people to alter their beliefs to minimise their effect upon you? Would you alter your heartfelt beliefs (on any issue) to minimise their effect upon someone else? How far you censor yourself in terms of sharing your own beliefs? It is just a fact of life that we all hold beliefs and they affect our actions. This is true of any belief, be it secular or religious.

Indeed. But not all of us expect to have those beliefs imposed on those who don't share them. That's the line.

What is the use of my worry? Well, I campaign against religious discrimination in all its forms, as I think it's divisive and damaging, and I will fight for the right of my children not to be discriminated against because of the beliefs of their parents. Do you not worry about, and therefore do something about, things that make life worse for you and the people you love - or other people in general?

It's a constant surprise to me that so many Christians are interested in social justice only insofar as it advances Christianity. Which goes some way to undermine the moral authority and subsequent benefit to society another poster was trying to claim earlier.

You talked about justice. He's a straight question. Do you think it's just that one religion is afforded privileges by the state that are denied to people of other and no faiths?

Really easy question.

No, I didn't ask about what you would do, but if you felt it right/fair. So you would be okay if every religion got to fill seats just because of their religion? Where does it stop? Who decides what religions get to have seats without being unfair? Follow the mental thread through to the end result.

Saying you would cope implies it would bother you to a lesser degree. Why would it bother you? Why would you not welcome it?

Jassy I don't believe worry is productive. I try to avoid worry through my faith. I am concerned about certain issues and speak out where I feel this is necessary.

In terms of justice I believe God is just.

head in terms of what I'd do, I'd 'cross that bridge' if and when I came to it.

Why do you feel there would be a bridge to cross? Why would it be an issue on any level? You've let slip you wouldn't be happy, why can't you explain why?

That isn't the question I asked you. Do you think it is just for the state to confer privileges on adherents of one religion that disadvantage others?

If the answer is yes, why not be honest?

Because a yes or no answer does not cover the complexity of my views on this, Jassy.

Complete democracy can be unfair and wrong if the public masses want things that are unfair and wrong.

Religion can be unjust if it does not truly represent God.

head I'd neither be happy or unhappy purely based on circumstance.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'complete democracy'. I'm asking your view on structural state-conferred privilege for Christianity. If it's complex, do you mind explaining it to me. At the moment it feels like you don't want to answer.

I don't have an answer Jassy. I could be fair or unfair, according to my beliefs, depending on whether God (who I believe is good and just) is truly represented by that 'state-conferred privilege'.

Complete democracy just means all governing decisions are made by a democratically elected government which truly is representative of the electorate.

^It could be unfair...not I. Typo.

So from what you're saying - if your god is properly represented, it's ok for the state to impose him on others?

And thanks for your definition of complete democracy - it differs significantly from others I have seen due to the limits of representative democracy.

I'm in favour of representative democracy over partial theocracy, myself.

God is not hurting us , WE ARE hurting ourselves.

Yes and no Jassy. If He were truly represented by the state, the state would perfectly reflect Him. It would be perfect. Perfection does not need to be imposed, it just is - people can rebel against it, though.