to think the job centre making you apply for every job is pointless and a waste of time

[wheresthelight]

I appreciate that they want to make sure people are actually applying for jobs but when I was using the service over christmas they were making me apply for jobs massively below my previous career position which meant I was getting loads of rejections for being over qualified etc (not a stealth boast) and I felt awful knowing i was wasting the time of the employer having to go through cvs that were never going to be suitable.

the job I now have (and love) involves some recruitment and I have spent much of the last week ringing people up to invite them for trial/interview and when you speak to them the basic requirements of the job spec are not met ie one of the essential requirements is to hold a full UK driving licence. at least 70% haven't had one and when I say sorry but it's an essential criteria (job is field based) they are pretty dismissive and basically say yeah they know but job centre told them to apply. it is really bloody annoying and a complete waste of time!

I am the manager at a volunteer centre. We have a supported volunteering project which aims to help people with additional needs into volunteering. The amount of desperate people we have had over the last two years who have been told they have 'got to volunteer' is ridiculous. After several months of it (and some abuse from people when we couldn't find them anything - mainly because they were refusing any suggestions ) I got to see a head honcho at the Job centre who was rude and unpleasant. We now make it completely clear that 'Got To Volunteer' is a little bit of a contradiction!

Our funding is of course incredibly low and we need to help those people who really really do want the volunteering. It makes me so angry

BearFrills, I've had similar when I was signing on. Having to ring up because I'd not received any money, not knowing whether I'd been sanctioned for something or whether they'd forgotten to do the paperwork (the latter, as it turned out. Several times)

The insistence that I come down and sign on when ill. I rang them up and told them that me and the kids were all ill. They demanded to know whether it was me or the kids. I said both. After five minutes of wrangling I agreed to come down and sign on, despite being feverish and lightheaded.

I was sent on a basic skills course despite me telling them that I was due to have two minor surgeries and several medical appointments, then unsurprisingly I was thrown off the course for not attending. Though I signed on an hour after one minor surgery with my hand still anaesthetised.

Food banks feed trolls and decent people without fear or favour.

So there's no need for anyone on this thread to .

limited.

have I been taken in by a troll?

I never learn

It isn't healthy or sustainable to just keep handing money out to people.

Where is it this money is being handed put? Last I checked it was actually difficult to get money without jumping through many hoops first and then jumping through many more hoops in order to keep it.

Have you been down the jobcentre lately, Battery? It's shit. Seriously shit. I highly doubt that most people are there by choice and certainly all the people I've spoken to while waiting for appointments (because they never run on time) are either actively looking for work or have no other choice than to claim benefits.

The current system is of 'you must do x, y, and z or we will sanction you' is no help to anyone. It's punitive rather than supportive and the limits set are ridiculous.

I know someone who was actually told to stop going to so many interviews. There were no jobs locally in this persons field of expertise so they'd looked further afield and were having to claim travelling expenses in order to travel to interviews. They weren't taking the piss and they were being savvy, organising two or three interviews for the same day to get the most out of each train ticket they had to begask for but after the third one the jobcentre told them that they were going on too many interviews and had to stop!

I once spoke to a woman sitting in the waiting room with a capped off IV in the back of her hand and a hospital bracelet on. She'd been in hospital all night and had signed herself out in order to sign on because when she rang the jobcentre they said she'd be sanctioned if she missed her appointment. Yet a different jobcentre I went to gave me a 'free pass' with no sanctions to miss a signing date when my DC had a vomiting bug. There is no consistency in the system.

I think some of your comments have been deliberately inflammatory, the thread was about it being a waste of everyone's time to make claimants apply for every single job not about whether it's okay to treat people like shit to deter them from claiming in the first place.

I rarely wish ill fortune on people. But just occasionally someone so obnoxious pops up & I can't help but hope that some misfortune befalls them as that's the only way they'll ever be able to appreciate what a smug twat they were.

It says much about how decent most mnetters are that the suggestion of trolling has come up in this context. But sadly it is a bog standard not even particularly minority position. If it wasn't, the bloody Tories wouldn't be in power. After all, they are a party on record as stating that people who rely on foodbanks do so because they are poor money managers and don't know how to cook. I wish Iain Duncan smith and his ilk could be dismissed as trolls. Unfortunately these 'trolls' are running the country and setting the terms of the welfare debate.

have I been taken in by a troll?

Not necessarily treaclesoda. Some people genuinely have a naive view of what's lurking for them as close as a job loss and three missed mortgage payments away.

That might be combined with a desire to shock, like the little girl who flashes her knickers at primary school.

Then there are those with chillingly detached views of their fellow human beings.

Of course, you'd have to be a human being to qualify for that last one.

How's it go again? 'I might get flamed for this.'

Yawn.

"'I might get flamed for this" is the MN equivalent of "I'm not racist but..."

contributions based JSA surely is providing for yourself, I've paid thousands and thousands in over the years in NI. I wouldn't bother jumping through the hoops to actually claim it though. The system should be about helping people to find sustainable work that is what will benefit the economy, not making people apply for random unsuitable jobs while some loser JCP adviser treats you like scum.

Bearfrills i remember a similar incident in our local Job Centre. A woman was having an angina attack and they wouldnt let her use their phone in the JC or use it on her behalf They told her to walk up the road to a phone box.

This has reminded me of my experience. It had snowed heavily enough to temporarily closed the main road (and bus route) but I was told I had to attend anyway. So I walked 5 miles to sign on. Only to be told the fucking computer system had been down all morning and they couldn't do anything. The dickhead I spoke to KNEW the system was down but insisted I walked there in heavy snow. I had also had to sort a babysitter out as the schools were closed! I ended up walking back 5 miles in tears.
They were next to no help - apart from one advisor who was lovely and actually helped me a great deal the rest were rude and made it clear they didn't give a damn. The joy I felt when I got a jobs short time later off my own bat rather than through them was immense.
Is that the type of uncomfortable you were talking about Battery?

Being disabled/having a disabled child/losing your job must be hideous things to experience in life, which is why I am constantly surprised at how few people make adequate provision for these eventualities.

Instead of stuffing all the spare cash we all have down the sofa, you mean?

I'm pretty sure it is what she's talking about, dragons.

In some people's world, feckless you only chose to work because of the creative vileness of the JobCentre dickheads. Not because, oh, you might like to work, have a career, have money, or anything.

'I agree that this is a problem, nobody wants to see people suffer, but the answer is for people to take responsibility for themselves, not to rely on the state.'

Yes, and if you are never in a position to 'take responsibility for yourself' with expensive insurance policies that then try to eke out of paying out, it's all your fault, like being poor, so fuck you.

You're probably right

"It says much about how decent most mnetters are that the suggestion of trolling has come up in this context. But sadly it is a bog standard not even particularly minority position. If it wasn't, the bloody Tories wouldn't be in power"

I have an aquaintance with a similar attitude to Battery's. She lives at home with both her happily married parents, has a job (which she appeared to have no trouble getting), has a loving partner, doesn't have children, is fit and healthy, and has a good support network and social life. In other words, she is not down on her luck or suffering hardship or abuse. She appears "normal" and is very friendly, however I've heard her say that women who fall on hard times and can't afford to feed their children (to the point of being so desperate they steal a loaf of bread) should have them taken away and put into care. I kid you not unfortunately. She's voting tory funny enough.

This thread is so incredibly sad. Thankfully I haven't had first hand experience, and would consider myself fairly comfortably off (for now), but I know how easily lives change. It would only take one bad accident or serious illness to make things a whole lot less comfortable. We need to support those who are struggling surely. It's called having empathy.

Yep.

Some hideousness is unavoidable in assessing for disability benefits. Appropriate assessments at appropriate (not unnecessarily frequent) intervals do have to be done.

But none of what I described above is necessary.

Before the ATOS contracts I was never treated like that. My experience is this behaviour started about the same time as the "benefit scrounging scum" propaganda.

Have you seen the Fightback4justice forums

They help people with ATOS interviews, PIP etc

They are all volunteers. It's a free service but do appreciate a donation to keep it running to support others.

www.fightback4justice.co.uk/#!about-us/c20c8

I find myself wondering what Battery thinks people in my situation should do. I've just started the process of being tested for Huntington's disease; no insurer in the world will go anywhere near me if the results come back positive. What am I supposed to do to ensure I never need any help from anyone ever again?

What eventuality can you take for your partner leaving you. Pop the child back up your fanjo until you've found work?

Battery what provision can you make in case you have a disabled child?
As someone who works with disabled children I'm incredulous at your comments Have you any idea of the impact a disabled child has on parents? How insensitive.

What about the childcare you had prior to maternity leave no longer being available and being unable to find new childcare? And by unable I mean literally no one within travelling distance with availability for the days/times needed who could have all three DC and do school drop off. Should I have given them a front door key and £1 each for the chip shop instead of resigning and setting up my own business?

Speaking of own businesses. I used my last lot of maternity leave to retrain in a job I could do from home as I knew the childcare would be an issue for the reasons given - I did my research. I started training at just two weeks post section, I used to park the baby in the corner of the classroom and the people running the course wouldn't let anyone have a hot drink in case it got spilled in the pram (elf and safety gorn mad!).

Anyway, I qualified and then had to do a whole load of legal stuff, registrations, etc before I could start trading. By this point my maternity pay had run out and we needed the money for indulgent luxuries like food and electricity so I claimed contributions based JSA. Even though I was in the process of setting up my business and so had a 100% guaranteed job to go to, I still had to apply for a minimum of six jobs per week and send out ten CVs per week on a speculative basis. I had no intention to of taking any of these jobs and so any interviews I was offered were a waste of my time and a waste of the employers time, it also meant I was taking an interview (and therefore a chance at a job) away from someone who might have wanted that job.

Remembered another gem from my days as a benefit scrounger. A job was advertised at a 24/7 hotel gym and was for nightshift. I was told to apply for it as childcare wouldn't be an issue, the hours were 7pm to 7am, Monday to Friday, and my husband was home at those times. The advisor looked confused when I asked when exactly I was supposed to sleep: "you get weekends off and you could have a couple of hours when the baby is having a nap..."

And you guessed it - "you have to apply or your benefit will be sanctioned".

This thread has made boil with rage.

How dare people in employment treat others who aren't with such contempt.

At the end of the day, it's your money. You've paid into the system and when you've fallen on hard times ....it's your own money you are getting back.

Disgusting and disgraceful.