to think the job centre making you apply for every job is pointless and a waste of time

[wheresthelight]

I appreciate that they want to make sure people are actually applying for jobs but when I was using the service over christmas they were making me apply for jobs massively below my previous career position which meant I was getting loads of rejections for being over qualified etc (not a stealth boast) and I felt awful knowing i was wasting the time of the employer having to go through cvs that were never going to be suitable.

the job I now have (and love) involves some recruitment and I have spent much of the last week ringing people up to invite them for trial/interview and when you speak to them the basic requirements of the job spec are not met ie one of the essential requirements is to hold a full UK driving licence. at least 70% haven't had one and when I say sorry but it's an essential criteria (job is field based) they are pretty dismissive and basically say yeah they know but job centre told them to apply. it is really bloody annoying and a complete waste of time!

Stick with it, can'tthink. There is a perverse joy in getting past the stupid hurdles.

I am shocked by the description of what happens to people attending ATOS centres.

Yep.

Some hideousness is unavoidable in assessing for disability benefits. Appropriate assessments at appropriate (not unnecessarily frequent) intervals do have to be done.

But none of what I described above is necessary.

Before the ATOS contracts I was never treated like that. My experience is this behaviour started about the same time as the "benefit scrounging scum" propaganda.

I was made redundant while pregnant , had to sign on for a few weeks until my maternity kicked in. My local job center arranged (forced) me to go to a interview for a local transport company.
When i arrived the guy burst out laughing. It was shift work loading and unloading freezer lorries. He could not work out what i was doing there as the advert for the job clearly stated that it was physical work in difficult conditions.
I was practically needing help out of a chair at that point.
A complete waste of time.

I (thankfully) do have any personal experience of the current system. However I am currently reading a book about the Victorian Poor Law and workhouse system and the principles sound just the same. Then it was make the workhouse the only option and so uncomfortable and demeaning that no one will apply for poor relief unless they are starving (and some preferred to starve).
Now make it so pointless and demeaning that no one will apply for JSA or disability benefits if they have any other option.

Sorry should be do not.

That's terrible Monster. If that were me I'd have made holy show of them about their lack of disregard to pregnant women. Surely there's a safe guarding or lack of element there.. Not saying I'd win but I'd dAmn well get my point over.

WhTs the point in making people apply for jobs they aren't qualified for. Waste of their time and the employers time.

Wasting the person's time is the point, Ilive.

It's intended to be a punitive activity, not a productive one.

The fact that it's wasting employers' time as well is the only point of push-back on this, given current climate.

If the some of the small business associations (or big business!) kick up about this, that's the only way there will be change.

I used to work in HR and did a lot of recruitment back in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It was exactly the same then. We got to the point that although we wanted to use the job centre to recruit (free, helping local community/economy etc) we just had to stop - they clearly were making everyone/anyone apply for any old job regardless of any inclination or suitability.

So not just the current job centre crapness - been happening for years.

PausingFlatly, I couldn't agree more.

"benefits" and "welfare" are extremely loaded words now. Usually coupled with "scum" and "entitled".

As an unemployed disabled person, I am treated with either pity or contempt. I don't know which is worse.

When I applied for PIP, it felt like I was begging. It was humiliating.

And I won't get started on carers allowance and the lack of support for carers. DH now has to work full time, for monetary reasons but also for reasons connected with my second paragraph, he is out at 4.30am so he can do a days work and finish for school run, then come home and look after me, some days I can't dress without help. As he works full time he lost his carers allowance of £68 a week and it infuriates me that he isn't classed as a carer nor recognised as such. He will literally work himself to death.

For PIP, I had to prove (and did) that I needed substantial, full time help with mobility and care. Who the hell do they think is caring for me?

I worked in a Jobcentre for two years a few years ago. It was a deeply frustrating experience as we were got loads of training on the benefits and computer systems side of things, but almost none on the jobseeking side of things. It was pretty much just assumed that you were already an expert in the local job market (I wasn't, I had no clue as I'd just moved there!), CV writing (I can write a decent CV but many of my colleagues were hopeless), etc. I often felt as though I was giving terrible advice to my customers - and was regularly 'spoken to' by my bosses for not forcing people to apply for jobs they would never get and trying instead to help address the issues that were holding them back from finding work!

It seems the system has not improved with the introduction of the universal jobmatch thing. I left just before that was brought in. We were also seriously discouraged from even mentioning things that were available to customers that cost money (such as reimbursing travel costs to interviews and help with job related expenses when people returned to work). I was investigated by the internal fraud team because I was approving about 10x more grants for things like interviews clothes and train fares than everyone else in the office! Obviously I wasn't on the fiddle and was just actively advising customers what they could ask for help with! In the end I was told I had to get my manager to approve any claims, despite this not being official guidance...

A lot of the people who work there have been there for decades and have worked as benefit processors before becoming customer facing staff. Their training has all been about preventing fraud and getting people off benefits as much as possible - not in how to actually help people negotiate the modern job market.

After my temporary contract ended there, I actually went without any money at all for almost six months, rather than have to go in and sign on! I could have claimed contribution based JSA but I just couldn't face dealing with the system. Most people don't have that option though! That said, I did actually quite enjoy working there as I had many lovely customers who I still see in town regularly and chat to (one guy helped me change my tyre last week when he spotted and remembered me).

I worked in a Jobcentre for two years a few years ago. It was a deeply frustrating experience as we were got loads of training on the benefits and computer systems side of things, but almost none on the jobseeking side of things. It was pretty much just assumed that you were already an expert in the local job market (I wasn't, I had no clue as I'd just moved there!), CV writing (I can write a decent CV but many of my colleagues were hopeless), etc. I often felt as though I was giving terrible advice to my customers - and was regularly 'spoken to' by my bosses for not forcing people to apply for jobs they would never get and trying instead to help address the issues that were holding them back from finding work!

It seems the system has not improved with the introduction of the universal jobmatch thing. I left just before that was brought in. We were also seriously discouraged from even mentioning things that were available to customers that cost money (such as reimbursing travel costs to interviews and help with job related expenses when people returned to work). I was investigated by the internal fraud team because I was approving about 10x more grants for things like interviews clothes and train fares than everyone else in the office! Obviously I wasn't on the fiddle and was just actively advising customers what they could ask for help with! In the end I was told I had to get my manager to approve any claims, despite this not being official guidance...

A lot of the people who work there have been there for decades and have worked as benefit processors before becoming customer facing staff. Their training has all been about preventing fraud and getting people off benefits as much as possible - not in how to actually help people negotiate the modern job market.

After my temporary contract ended there, I actually went without any money at all for almost six months, rather than have to go in and sign on! I could have claimed contribution based JSA but I just couldn't face dealing with the system. Most people don't have that option though! That said, I did actually quite enjoy working there as I had many lovely customers who I still see in town regularly and chat to (one guy helped me change my tyre last week when he spotted and remembered me).

I worked in a Jobcentre for two years a few years ago. It was a deeply frustrating experience as we were got loads of training on the benefits and computer systems side of things, but almost none on the jobseeking side of things. It was pretty much just assumed that you were already an expert in the local job market (I wasn't, I had no clue as I'd just moved there!), CV writing (I can write a decent CV but many of my colleagues were hopeless), etc. I often felt as though I was giving terrible advice to my customers - and was regularly 'spoken to' by my bosses for not forcing people to apply for jobs they would never get and trying instead to help address the issues that were holding them back from finding work!

It seems the system has not improved with the introduction of the universal jobmatch thing. I left just before that was brought in. We were also seriously discouraged from even mentioning things that were available to customers that cost money (such as reimbursing travel costs to interviews and help with job related expenses when people returned to work). I was investigated by the internal fraud team because I was approving about 10x more grants for things like interviews clothes and train fares than everyone else in the office! Obviously I wasn't on the fiddle and was just actively advising customers what they could ask for help with! In the end I was told I had to get my manager to approve any claims, despite this not being official guidance...

A lot of the people who work there have been there for decades and have worked as benefit processors before becoming customer facing staff. Their training has all been about preventing fraud and getting people off benefits as much as possible - not in how to actually help people negotiate the modern job market.

After my temporary contract ended there, I actually went without any money at all for almost six months, rather than have to go in and sign on! I could have claimed contribution based JSA but I just couldn't face dealing with the system. Most people don't have that option though! That said, I did actually quite enjoy working there as I had many lovely customers who I still see in town regularly and chat to (one guy helped me change my tyre last week when he spotted and remembered me).

Sorry that went a bit off topic, but in my head it was connected with the job centre When I finally lost my job due to ill health, the contact we had with them was so humiliating, DH declared he would never be involved with them again.

He found his own job to support us.

Of course they've won, they've got what they wanted, which really fucks me off.

I work in HR , I receive this sort of email at least once a month pretty much saying I have to apply but please don't hire me as the jobs we advertise are day jobs.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have been unemployed for quite a while now. I need to work, or face sanctioning. I have a preference for night work, as being unemployed for many years, I prefer to go for what I feel I would be most reliable.

Unfortunately for me refusing a job on offer, renders me also sanctioned. Putting it simple it is a matter of work or die. I am confident to say that if I am forced into a situation, whereby I am unable to receive my preference of night work. Our relationship during the day would not be long lasting, hence wasting your time and mine.

I wish to make it clear at this time that I am not refusing what you have on offer, I am simply stating my preference for you to take into consideration when making your decision.

I look forward to hearing from you if only to say, no not this time. I need this reply as proof that I am applying for work.

Regards

I was claiming contributions based JSA when DD was a baby and found it to be an utterly ridiculous system.

One of my suggested areas of work was classroom assistant. I was told to apply for a lunchtime supervisor job (aka, dinner lady), one hour a day for five days a week, at a school ten miles from my house. There was no direct bus so I need to get two. When I worked out the transport I'd need to leave home at 10am to be at work for 12, finish at 1pm and I'd be home by 3pm. A weekly bus pass would cost £22, my weekly childcare costs would be £140 (2 DC x 20 hrs x £3.50 an hour), and my weekly wage would be £35. I was told to apply or be sanctioned.

I was also told to apply for a job as a geography teacher at the local high school because "it's a bit like being a classroom assistant" despite me not being a qualified teacher and being crap at geography. I was told that if I got an interview I should just tell them I couldn't do the job but at least I would have gotten some interview experience. Again it was apply or be sanctioned.

I was told to claim bus fare to a job interview as it was proof I'd been to the interview. I said I'd do it at my next sign in, I'd bring the bus ticket and claim it back. I got told no, it had to be done in advance of the interview so I had to go up to the jobcentre. They gave me a set fare of £4 for my interview. The actual bus fare was £6 and it had cost me £5 to get to the jobcentre to collect this £4 that I neither wanted nor asked for but was told I had to have.

We had bad snow and there were no buses. I waited at a bus stop for 90 minutes and nothing came. I rang the jobcentre to say I couldn't come sign that day and was told that I could walk the six miles to the office (with 10mo DD in her buggy) and it was not like I had anything else to do with my day.

On another signing day the person at the desk forgot to tell my advisor I'd arrived and it was over an hour before I was seen. When I complained I was told "well its not like you have a job to get to, is it?"

On three occasions they 'forgot' to pay my jobseekers because they forgot to record on the system that I'd signed on.

When I did find a job (with no help from them) and signed off, they didn't record it properly on the system. A few weeks later I got two letters, one telling me I was being sanctioned for missing a signing date and another telling me I was being investigated for working while claiming.

You see BearFrills, yours is the sort of post that thick goady fuckers who spout and perpetuate the "benefit bashing" (life of Riley, goats, holidays, Sky TV) should read to actually see the reality of life.

I won't go into detail about my experience as I know I will cry (and DH will be home in an hour and be worried) but it wasn't the incompetence that was so upsetting, it was the attitude, the assumption we were just scum on the scrounge. It was horrible.

I'm on JSA atm, been on for 2 years and no matter how hard I try, I'm still not getting anywhere with finding work.

I'm skint, bored and depressed. Being on JSA is the pits and anyone who thinks that a life of benefits is the best, they are idiots.

I know someone who was told to apply for a job as a forklift driver, even though they couldn't drive one. Their job centre person told them if they were offered the job the job centre would pay for them to learn.

Also a clerical administrator who was forced to apply for a job as a systems administrator. Obviously, that is not the same type of job, but it included the word administrator so she had to apply.

I know I'll be jumped on for saying this, but I agree with the system.

Life on benefits needs to be made uncomfortable, precisely to deter people from claiming - the welfare system should be an absolute last resort.

Battery, what exactly do you mean by 'uncomfortable'? Do you mean financially uncomfortable, as in people being paid the absolute minimum needed to live on? Or do you mean people should be made to feel uncomfortable, as in it being okay for benefit claimants to be treat like scum?

Should disabled people have their lives deliberately made more uncomfortable, batterypoweredhen?

Have you read the thread? I don't think anyone on here who has dealings with "the system" has used it as anything other than a last resort!

IlL health, marital breakdowns, redundancies...not exactly a first choice for peoples ' lives, are they?

Let's hope you never lose your job or income, eh?

RebootYourEngine

The job centre here just doesn't seem to care. I've even contacted them to ask for referrals of the people with skills we are looking for.

I think a previous poster hit the nail on the head that its now a gateway to JSA monitoring. The people working at the job centre don't necessarily have the skills required to help get people jobs.

Do you feel that about pensions too, BatteryPoweredHen?

Can you explain why you think those of us like cantthinkofnewname and Nettletheelf and myself who paid our National Insurance contributions in good faith should be treated like unworthy beggars when we need to claim on that insurance?

The whole point of National Insurance is to fund a non-profit-making, state-backed insurance system which offers something between expensive, unreliable private insurance and workhouse-level subsistence.

It was designed to both take the weight off the "last resort" system and save citizens from having to endure that.

And you'd like to got back to "last resort" only? Where families like YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually's with one disability, are suffering further poor health because of the financial, work and caring burden.

You know that the people most in favour of cutting National Insurance benefits are the private insurance companies, which hold conferences advising government to cut NI based benefits - and then run ads telling the public to buy private insurance because NI wont be enough? UNUM's annual report said they were expecting the UK to be a huge growth area over the next few years...