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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think so many things are done in education because of tradition and not because they have an educational purpose.

109 replies

OrlandoWoolf · 29/04/2015 22:24

2 things really. But I am sure people can think of more.

Spelling tests - if you're a good speller, you'll probably not need to practise much and you'll probably get most of them right.

Do spelling tests improve your spellings? Why do people who need to learn them get them right in the test but get them wrong in their normal writing?

Homework - does it help you learn? Remember stuff. Help you improve. Or is it done because that's the way it's always been so people expect it?

I don't think there's any evidence to support the educational effectiveness of spelling tests or homework. Good teaching and identification of reading / spelling issues helps you learn to spell.

But we like tradition, not evidence, don't we

OP posts:

steppemum · 30/04/2015 16:22

legs
yep we did all that

he wasn't allowed out with friends until it was done, he spent all day not doing it and complaining about not going out with friends (to which I shrugged my shoulders) and he cared enough about teacher to need to do it at some point.

But it ruined many many Saturday and hung over him like a black cloud.

Bonsoir · 30/04/2015 16:52

Long pieces of homework are far less "pencil and paper based" IME than regular homework during the year. Long homework gives DC the opportunity to think/discuss what is required which is it's great value.

It also doesn't take three weeks to complete. Plenty of time for other stuff too.

Gileswithachainsaw · 30/04/2015 16:59

steppemum

that sounds soooo familiar.

homework has ruined so many days and evenings. It's stressed out my child who's already highly strung at the moment and has meant that there's little downtime fir her. and it turned previously pleasurable activities into something she now hates as it was given the title of "homework"

honestly. I don't see how being cooped up crying with a whiny 4 yr old who'd also rather be outside playing has benefited any of us.

TheWordFactory · 30/04/2015 17:01

I never minded homework.

Listening to them read each evening was always a pleasure and took, what? Ten minutes?

After that short bursts of maths and English weren't arduous and I wanted to know what they were doing in school and where strengths and weaknesses lay.

Also in terms of MFL, DC simply have to do consolidation work at home. Part of the reason why so many pupils find them difficult is they have no early years grounding in MFL. At best they spend an hour a week repeating c'est un stylo.

Jackieharris · 30/04/2015 17:03

DS's school didn't do spelling tests or homework.

Bonsoir · 30/04/2015 17:11

Yes, even if there were no other benefit, offering parents the opportunity to identify gaps/weaknesses is a good reason for setting homework.

Here in France there is no sending home of reading schemes every night for parents to hear read and, IMO, a lot of DC who really ought to be able to do so are not good at reading aloud because they haven't had enough practice.

TheWordFactory · 30/04/2015 17:15

Indeed Bonsoir.

Even the most attentive teachers can't offer the level of one to one attention that a parent can.

steppemum · 30/04/2015 17:18

reading is the one thing that has been shown to benefit hugely from being done at home.
It is the other hw which has been shown by research to have no additional benefit.

I love mn, the plural of anecdote isn't data.

research shows it doesn't help - except reading and times tables, but hey we like it so lets continue to do something proven to be of no value, because it makes us feel involved.

School is after all all about the parent and not what is good for the child

Gileswithachainsaw · 30/04/2015 17:21

exactly steppe

parents just want to show off how clever they are assisting with complex projects and models of stone henge or whatever.

garuntee the kid doesn't do half of what gets sent in.

Bonsoir · 30/04/2015 17:24

I actually don't really care about what some people say research says. It's usually pretty easy to find some research to back up what you want to believe!

I tend to work out what works for the DC through observation. And I find a lot of homework pretty useful.

Sparklingbrook · 30/04/2015 17:26

One crappy project ruined a whole Christmas holiday. DS hates Art and is no good at Art but still in Year 8 had a massive art project to complete. I still shudder at the memory.

There were tears and they weren't all DS's.

Gileswithachainsaw · 30/04/2015 17:39

People need to stop lumping the reading in with the homework. readings a given.

It's everything else. yen projects the diaries teh class bears the work sheets teh research and the models and designs and posters etc.

All too much for such small children who need the time to wind down after a busy day. not wound up befire bed with homework

TheWordFactory · 30/04/2015 17:40

The only real research on this doesn't take into account how DC progress in subjects such as MFL.

Nor does it show what the long term effects might be (positive or negative).

I have no interest in building space ships, but I have every interest in seeing how my DC are progressing across the curriculum.

TheWordFactory · 30/04/2015 17:45

giles homework at primary level is optional I believe.

If you truly believe that homework at this level is pointless/damaging, then don't do it.

But why push to stop schools giving it out to those who do think it beneficial for their DC?

LegsOfSteel · 30/04/2015 17:48

People need to stop lumping the reading in with the homework. readings a given.
That's where some of the confusion is, I think. To me anything that comes home is homework - reading, practise spelling, timetables and projects. Mostly the homework is reading, spelling and maths similar to that in class. 10 minutes for reading and the rest takes about 15 minutes once a week. I don't know how you can learn something like maths without repetition so don't understand when classmate's parents complain about the homework.
I admit the project stuff is a pain in the butt - I try to offload that onto DH.

Original poster

OrlandoWoolf · 30/04/2015 17:50

If you truly believe that homework at this level is pointless/damaging, then don't do it

Then you get this dilemma.

I think homework is pointless. But school sets homework and expects them to do it. They get punished if they don't do it.

I can't tell DS not to do it as he has to follow what school expects - and parental co-operation is vital.

So not doing it is not an option. But I look at the homework and see no educational value whatsoever.

OP posts:

TheWordFactory · 30/04/2015 17:57

I well you see I wouldn't orlando.

My view is that my DC's education is my responsibiliy and I want as much involvement as possible.

I use school as a resource, but that does not over ride me as the parent. For example, my DC will not be doing work experience next year no matter how much school insists. That as they say, is that.

Now I happen to think the homework my DC have been given over the years has been a. very helpful to me (in overseeing). b. very helpful to DC and c. not a problem for our family.

I would be very cross if those parents who didn't like it insisted it stop. But I have no issue with them not doing it. Indeed I would respect their position (even where I felt it misguided).

Sparklingbrook · 30/04/2015 17:57

As I said upthread somewhere i refused to let DS2 do presentation No 6. It didn't go down well at all. But it was the last term of the last year at the school so I didn't care too much.

I often wondered what listening to 20 children's presentations was like for the teacher and the rest of the class.

Middle School homework was much better and now they are at secondary and DS1 about to take GCSEs they seem to have manageable homework, and obviously hardly any parental input required.

Original poster

OrlandoWoolf · 30/04/2015 17:59

My view is that my DC's education is my responsibiliy and I want as much involvement as possible

See- I am a teacher and the last thing DS wants is me involved in his education

I got told off for asking questions when we read.

Or bringing maths into anything

Or science

OP posts:

Bonsoir · 30/04/2015 18:14

I love the homework where DD prepares presentations. So does she!

Sure, no 10 year old is going to provide earth-shattering insights. That's not the point. They are learning to stand up in front of the class and talk about something they have read and researched, and written about in an engaging way. That is fantastic preparation for the future. Public speaking is a critical skill in the modern world and it is very difficult for teachers to prepare DCs for that in a classroom context, which is why I am so glad that my DD's uber-pragmatic teacher sets the prep as holiday homework!

educatingarti · 30/04/2015 18:22

I think homework can be useful when
a) it is targeted at an appropriate ability for the child
b) it provides further practice and consiolidation of work taught in class.

If you revisit information the same day it is taught or a few days later, it helps you to remember the information.

Gileswithachainsaw · 30/04/2015 18:23

Your talking about a 10 yr old though.

We've had homework since reception.

Sparklingbrook · 30/04/2015 18:24

Well after doing 5 presentations I think he had got the hang of it Bonsoir

TheForger · 30/04/2015 18:26

I would be very cross if those parents who didn't like it insisted that it stop. But I have no issue with them not doing it.

I've found the thread really interesting, partly because some parents in DC1's class have complained that their children aren't getting enough. I am really interested in whether it actually helps at their age, eight, or is set to keep parents happy. I have no problem with reading, although he just reads for pleasure now. Spelling tests were painful but he seems to have got the hang of them. Times tables are done on the way to school and with an app. The problem I have is that I also have two younger children who also have homework and whilst it is just 10 / 15 minutes here and there I'm having to do it with 3 individually. I'd hate to think it is just to keep me happy.

Bonsoir · 30/04/2015 18:27

TheWordFactory - I am curious as to why you resist work experience?

DSS1 had work experience in Troisième (Year 10) and spent a very happy week at a luxury watch company in Paris. In Seconde (Year 11) he spent a less happy fortnight in London at some sort of finance company (no memory as to what) but it certainly did him no harm.

DSS2 spent a fortnight at Lagardère doing the rounds of the media industry when he was in Seconde. I'm not sure he enjoyed it (he is not a superficial sort) but it was clearly eye-opening about the role of the media in democracy.

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