to think so many things are done in education because of tradition and not because they have an educational purpose.

[OrlandoWoolf]

Ok

2 things really. But I am sure people can think of more.

Spelling tests - if you're a good speller, you'll probably not need to practise much and you'll probably get most of them right.

Do spelling tests improve your spellings? Why do people who need to learn them get them right in the test but get them wrong in their normal writing?

Homework - does it help you learn? Remember stuff. Help you improve. Or is it done because that's the way it's always been so people expect it?

I don't think there's any evidence to support the educational effectiveness of spelling tests or homework. Good teaching and identification of reading / spelling issues helps you learn to spell.

But we like tradition, not evidence, don't we

Reading and spelling is very important in life. Homework sheet that are handed out absolutely not.

Religious education is also useful these days but a christian (English) thread through out is very important to our countries identity. English people have a culture and in England this should be predominate.

Reading, spelling and math are what always should happen. Homework is counter productive in most cases. It alienates the parent from the child. I chose to ditch all this and have a relationship with my child other than fighting with him. People are either academic or not and pushing that makes for a very unhappy environment. Im more for the social skill side of things. My child is very socially ept and getting B's due to having a life outside of his studies and Im a very proud parent.

I'm not sure it's tradition from the teachers point of view that keeps spelling tests going. It's more that parents seem to think they are important because they did them at school so continuing to give them even though they are pointless is the easiest path to a quiet life. It's still not right, but there you go.

In terms of the social equality argument someone made, those children that start school disadvantaged by their background tend to be the ones that don't do the homework or reading books either. IME schools that over rely on hw etc for children to learn end up increasing the gap rather than narrowing it.

80% of homework is pointless - imho

I'm a traditionalist in some ways. There's no use spending days on cross country running, assemblies and various other fluffy extra curricular activities when kids can't spell or do basic arithmetic.

I made Dd recite times tables at home, 5 minutes a day for a month. Watching her use "strategies" 20 times on each worksheet to do basic muliplication was ridiculous. And ineffective. Now she can do basic multiplications in her head and it takes 1/10 of the time to finish her maths.

daffsandtips - You know it is possible to be socially adept, have lots of extracurricular activities and lots of free play and STILL get As, don't you?

I'm really not fond of this culture that prizes early sporting ability but stigmatises clever kids and perpetuates the stereotype that they have to be socially incompetent, clever-but-not-practical and not have a "rounded life". One of my kids is 7, about 3 years ahead in maths, reading Harry Potter independently and taught herself about Space in the last school holidays. She spends her weekends playing with her siblings and friends, riding her bike and skateboard and doing swimming. She already loves maths and science and I don't want her feeling like she needs to "dumb down" and away from a STEM career because of an underlying assumption that you can't be clever and fit in.

Incidentally, she's a great learner of spelling lists but she's probably got an eidactic memory.

Rant over : it's the readers I hate. The stories are awful and the language stilted. It also feels wrong to drag your kids away from proper stories to read them.

I don't know that there is evidence to confirm either is useful, but equally is there evidence to confirm they are not?

Aren't both all about learning discipline more than anything else? I agree that, pre-GCSE, children probably shouldn't have hours and hours of homework to do. But it wouldn't be helpful to pile it on them at that stage as an entirely new concept if they had no idea how to manage their time – or, indeed, revise.

Which brings us to spelling tests. spellings? well whoopee dio they learn a fee words for a few days then forget them all. This is a classic example of someone who has not learnt them. They might have spent some time trying to do so, but either not enough, or they have not learnt how to learn them. Spelling is not always about rules but sometimes simply must be done by rote – like a lot else in life (history dates, foreign language learning, physics formulas). There is no short cut.

Which is why I think YABU. School should be about teaching strategies as much as knowledge. (And much else, besides.)

But how much of most homework is teaching strategies? Genuine question. I'm all for the idea of homework if it's stimulating and helping kids with their planning and problem solving (exam revision aside) but a lot of it seems like parent-pleasing "busy-work".

This thread is a good example of why education isn't research based. Lots of opinions, based on anecdote or personal bias which is often the complete opposite of what research tells us is true.

Spelling tests ampules be scrapped, kids should practice the spellings they got wrong in their own writing. Homework does not improve social mobility as someone suggested since it relies heavily on parental involvement and further favors children of educated, involved parents.

I am ancient, and until O'levels we never got any homework. Even then it was something which took half an hour and we had a week to do it.
I wonder what has changed in the education system since then?
I am abroad and dd (11) gets at least 3-4 hours of hw 6 days a week. Obviously, they finish school at 1pm, but have been sitting at their desks since 8 with one 10 minute break (at their desks) This has been the same throughout primary as well.
You get used to it, and they do it. I actually have no complaints about the system here, (the maths and tech drawing etc are what we were doing at 16) but I do wonder about the rationale....do they have so much because the syllabus is too much to complete during the year? Don't know.

Friends of mine who teach in the Uk have told me that on reports etc they are given a set list of expressions they can use, and they must all be positive and nice. Now that really is absurd.

Laughs likeca drain at children not learning by 'osmosis' as that is exactly how they do learn and more importantly retain information. Children learn way more in a multi sensory way (ie real life) and relaxed enviroment (that would be the bedtime reading type thing going on ) than they do in an enfirced sit down and learn a list of mostly non spesific words sort of way. 1/2 hour reading / cooking/ talking to an inirested parent or doing an activity that andorbs them to the point of immersion is so much more valuable that a list of 1p wprds

But we aren't talking about reading bed time stories. in fact it's exactly that kind of tradition and enrichment that takes a back seat when homework takes up the time.

reading books are a given. It's everything else

But it wouldn't be helpful to pile it on them at that stage as an entirely new concept if they had no idea how to manage their time – or, indeed, revise

why assume that kids who are now 12 and older suddenly wouldn't cope if it was a "new" concept. an 11 yr old is more than capable of understanding this. and cramming in an hours homework between swimming and dinner and rushing it before being dragged to your sisters ballet class teaches what exactly in the form.of time management???

11 and older that's should say

You will find that it is parents who want these things and call for them. ( not the sensible ones )

Homework in the English education system is utterly bizarre - disconnected, pointless, often not even marked. In Ireland you teach a lesson, then assign homework on that lesson from a textbook that explains the topic (so both parents and kids can reference it) and the next day at the start of the next lesson the whole class goes through the homework and sees what the problems were. So, for each piece of learning a child has three consecutive exposures and two chances to engage with the teacher about it. Homework is entirely practical and is absolutely beneficial - it serves as revision and as an indication for the teacher as to what problems kids are having with that particular topic. If a lot of kids come back clearly not having grasped a concept, then unlike in England where you have to plough ahead regardless, Irish teachers have the discretion to decide to spend another day on that concept. It is responsive teaching that deals with how the children are actually doing, not the teach-by-schedule system that seems to have developed here for some reason.

Spelling tests after having been taught spelling patterns etc is effective; practising them at home, particularly linked with handwriting, reinforces this. Written homework should reinforce work done in school and show that children have understood what they have been taught; very difficult to pitch correctly if you have five different levels in the class.

School ties
School uniform

Somehow many other countries cope without wearing them.

Oh - and those people who mention reading. Well that shouldn't be homework. That's what good parents do. Read to their kids and encourage their kids to read.

I do think the OP has a point I have three older DC who are now in their 30s and three younger ones aged 21 to 18. All brought reading books from school and we read lots at home.

The older ones had no homework during the infant years and very little in the juniors. They were given a few spellings and told to make sure they knew their times tables at home. DC1 and DC2 were good at spelling and got all their spellings right every week so the 'homework' never impacted on what we did in the evenings or weekends.

DC3 is dyslexic and he had extra catch up work to do at home which was fair enough. We made sure he did it and helped support the school as much as we could. From year 4 we also paid for extra lessons via the Dyslexia Institute (I think it's called something else now). He also had to learn his normal class spellings every week. This was a total nightmare for him. No amount of look, cover, spell was ever going to work and he still had the humiliation of a spelling test every Friday. Children who really struggle with spellings will always struggle IMO. If they are taught all the rules/patterns in class most children pick it up without homework.
I'm certain bringing spellings home to learn is of little use.

By the time my younger three went to the same primary school homework was sent home from reception age. Not just reading books but homework sheets. Lots of colouring in and cut and stick and Barny Bloody Bear to take on family days out. A complete waste of time but we still did it. Older infants and juniors had maths and english every week and often a journal to keep as well. It does put a strain on family time, especially if their are 3 DC all trying to get homework done. We did resent it more at this time of year. DC should be doing sports, hobbies and family outings not spending time doing things they should be doing during the school day. Two of my younger sons are dyslexic so the nightmare of learning for spelling tests went on for years. The younger DC didn't learn any more/quicker/better than their older siblings.

We have almost finished with school. All six done well at school, got good GCSE/Alevels and 4 have been/will go to university. The other two chose to do apprenticeships after A levels.

From our experience homework in the infant years is a was a waste of time and of limited use in the junior years. We always encouraged them to read at home and visit the library every week. I didn't consider that homework.

They HAVE done well at school.

Should really have previewed that before I posted.

Homework in First school a total waste of time IMO. especially the awful project ones that involved spending £££s in Hobbycraft and a weekend of stress.
In Year 3&4 DS2 had to do one a term of the 'do a presentation in front of the class' ones. By the time the 6th one came up I said no, he wasn't going to do any more.

I like school uniform. DS1 will be in 6th form next year and has to wear a suit.

YANBU - weekly spelling tests seem to stress my DC out about tests generally as they expect to fail and convinced them they were really poor spellers and I do wonder if they stopped trying as hard.

The lists sent home - don't always follow patterns depends on the teacher. Had one list in yr 1 that had 3 different ways of making same sound - and one very usual one and then random other words with no pattern. All it seemed to do was confuse the hell out our DC.

For one DC the teacher had to step in as they were being teased about their really low spelling test results - and once they get to ks2 they lose break time if their spellings results are too low.

I may be wrong - but from the little work I've seen misspelling from their own work don't seem to be picked up or corrected and I'm not sure apart from these tests how spelling is being taught.

I'm ending up spending time and money trying to sort spelling out at home.

I dislike HW at primary level - I believe there is fair bit of research showing that it doesn't help. I'm not so sure at Secondary level - I'm not sure what the research says and reading another thread I'm surprise how little other people did.

I can't understand why so many people have a problem with this. I have twins in reception. They each get 2 reading books a week which is fine plus a short list of spellings. I really have no problem with this. I think it consolidates what they've been learning during the day and it takes hardly any time.

Over the weekend they sometimes - not always - get some kind of worksheet or a couple of sentences to write - or something to cut out or maybe something to research on the internet. Again, can't see the problem in doing this - although yes we do need to carve out a bit of time on a Sunday to get it done which can be a stress for me.

As for the craft things and presentations - the former is surely stuff parents do with kids anyway, it's just directed by the school. I would be doing craft with them anyway - and I never go to hobby craft just use stuff I've collected in the house. The latter - erm surely presentation skills are a life skill and it's really important to get kids confident from an early age?

Just wait then mamma

until you have books plus spellings plus a journal to fill out and a half termly project to hand in. All to be done by a 5/6 yr old who's already tired and just wants to play yet.