... to wonder if the school holidays really have to be so long

[Dieu]

Hi all. I should say at the start that I am a former secondary school teacher, so this is most definitely not intended as a school or teacher bashing thread!
I guess I'm fortunate in that, despite being a single parent, I generally work term-time (with some holiday work) and can take my kids along with me. However I do wonder how other parents, particularly those who work full-time, manage everything. You need a medal!
I think the current model is rather outdated. The days of mothers being at home every day to look after the kids, while said kids play outdoors all day, are over.
Many of the parents at my daughters' school seem to be able to work flexibly, but it has to be difficult for those who have no room for manoeuvre where their places of work are concerned. Several families I know have to take separate 'holidays' from work, in order to cover the long summer break. Holiday care can be very expensive.
No judgement, I would just like to know what others think.

I'm a f/t whom. And juggling holiday cover is an issue , but that doesn't mean I would want children to have shorter holidays . We have used the very good Super Camps schemes, swapped with friends, taken holiday in relays .

The long summer hols at least give flexibility over when you can take a family holiday , rather than everyone wanting time off work and flights in the same weeks.

DH and I both work full time.

Interestingly the length of the summer holiday is the only one I don't have a problem with. The others are dotted around in such a pissy irritating way - a week here, two weeks there - when kids would get a better break if there were, say, four terms, half term was ditched and kids had fewer, longer chunks of holiday throughout the year.

I agree it's easier to plan for bigger chunks of childcare required, families get better holiday options with fewer longer breaks, and kids get a proper break.

As a secondary teacher, I know that the kids I teach are knackered by half term, especially the long 8 week terms. They definitely do need a break, especially in the exam years when term time is a constant treadmill of school and homework.

They need to be that long, children need time to be children and teachers need to have time to have a social life. It's often the only chance my teacher friends get to socialise or go on holiday as they are working during the short half term breaks.

Noble - Australian (and many other) kids must be tougher...

I don't really think a week's break does much for them from the kids I've observed.

There seem to be a lot of all day holiday clubs to resolve the problem of childcare in school holidays these days, there are always lots of them sent home.

Ragwort- Boney's reply above answers your question well so I won't add much. You may or may not know that most teachers routinely work part of most holidays. Also I have had to return early from holidays away (losing money on paid accommodation) to sort out classroom moves which weren't possible before the holidays for logistical reasons. Believe me, the government gets their money's worth out of teachers and the depressing figures on how many leave the profession due to workload speak for themselves...

Are your children really so exhausted at the end of a term? Surely that's a bit odd for healthy children with good diet and enough sleep. They are only at school a few hours a day.

But for most kids it's not just hours at school, it's going to a breakfast club/childminder and something after school as well - then home around six and still homework to come most days. That's a lot of time spent out of the home, even if not actually at school.

I wish the summer holiday was shorter (with longer holidays elsewhere so the same total time off).

I always remembered going back to school in September and struggling to write, goodness only knows what else I forgot.

I'm dreading finding holiday clubs next year for dd. I've had a brief look but so far all the clubs I've found are from 9.30am to 3pm
Fuck all use to anyone who works full time.

I love the long summer holidays.

Personally, I think it's one of the things parents need to factor in - it's hardly a surprise.

It's not a surprise - what is a surprise is that finding childcare is so expensive and difficult.

I still think a six week break can set back children's learning

When- surely things like childcare everyone researches before deciding if they can afford a child? It like when people complain that school trips and uniform cost. Schools in the uk have had uniform and trips for 100 years now, it's shouldn't be a surprise when they start school at 4 years.

If you have a child you need to think about all the childcare/ clothing/ hobbies/ transport/ life costs that will come with them.

You were surprised to find that childcare was expensive?

Mine are teens now so I dont have the same child care worries that some with younger kids have.

But - I think long periods of time away from school are fab. There is so much more to childhood than learning from books etc.

Kids need time to just be kids. They don't need to stimulated in an educational fashion 24/7.

It is a very sad state of affairs that there are so many kids growing up today that rarely get to be -just being. They are always being shuttled to school,to day care,to kids clubs. There are some kids that grow up where finding their own entertainment is rare because they are always somewhere where something is organised.

Its no ones fault its just the way things have evolved and god know what the answer is. In an ideal world 1 parent from every family could take paid leave for the summer holidays with no knock on effect to their careers or work but thats just fantasy.

I have been relatively lucky to have been able to be at home when my kids have been holidays (mostly but not every year) and I love it. I still do although its just not the same with teens. They tend to just want money and lifts once they emerge from their pits at around mid-day.

We have never been loaded financially and always had to choose carefully what we do with the little spare cash we had. I have some years taken them camping but usually relied on free things. Lots of walks,lots of picnics in various local parks - taking friends along too to make it more fun. A few days at Grannies and Aunties (we live miles and miles away). They have alot of time at home and when they were smaller used to make their own entertainment for a big part of the time. Building tents with blankets and chairs,pic nics in the garden, barbie going on holiday - consisting of a washing up bowl of water for the swimming pool.

I just think its good for kid to have a break from routine where possible and just do kiddy things - discovering things for themselves and having the freedom that they will probably never have in their life again.

More school is not the answer but there does need to be more affordable solutions for families that do not have the luxury of being able to take school holidays off with their kids.

Twirl I couldn't agree with you more. My teen has an inset day on Friday, and is off Monday for the BH weekend. She's really looking forward to just being at home, sleeping in a bit late etc.

She has a maths and chemistry test on Tuesday when she is back at school though, so won't be able to spend all the time relaxing.
I actually wish the holidays were longer than we have now.

I couldn't agree less with the OP and I think it is vital to fight for our children's right to spend time outside an institutional/group setting.

I love the long summer break, it's so nice to not have alarms going off, kids get time to unwind and just relax.

soup I knew it was going to be expensive but it was a shock just how expensive. I'm surprised you are surprised

It's definitely a surprise how stupid the timings are for holiday clubs are round my way. 9.30am to 3pm - I mean wtf?
I'm sure there are other options for me and I just need to do some more digging.

soup do you mind if I ask how you manage holiday care? It sounds like you just took it in your stride and I could do with some tips.

Surely things like childcare everyone researches before deciding if they can afford a child?

I agree with you Art but am constantly amazed how few people actually do research this sort of thing, many people (even here on mumsnet ) seem to have no idea about childcare costs/provision and seem surprised that childminders/holiday childcare etc aren't available 24/7.

But then I did spend about 12 years deciding whether or not to have a child and researching every single possibility? and still ended up with a lot of surprises.

No they aren't. In fact I would like them longer, from June. All June July and half of August. I found that when the children were small they were too short as I really loved having that pressure taken off, having to be somewhere every day on time, replaced with the freedom to go where we wanted, have fun, visit all the museums, galleries and just wander, and for those of us who don't live near our families we needed time to both go on holiday and visit grandparents, with enough time between to do the washing, pack away the camping stuff etc. It took me about 2 weeks to do all the washing and unpacking from camping holiday!! Christmas should be longer too, they break up right on top of it, so there is no time to do fun Christmas shopping, visit relatives before Christmas.....Easter should be a week longer so you can go away and not rush.
I LOVED having all that time...........I wanted children and I wanted to spend time with them so chose to be cash poor and I wouldn't have changed it. Now they are older I still want time to go away with them and time so they can go with their friends too. So I vote for LONGER holidays.

I don't think kids need more time at school,which would be the upshot. I appreciate it is hard, but the needs of the children need to come first as it is them that schools are for. I think holidays feel quite short, they were longer when I was at school.

My DS will be off school from mid June to 1st Sep, and DD end June to Sep.

We've learnt to work around it - DH takes a month off (self-employed) and the kids also do 2 weeks either residential camp or with family/friends. But it's a bloody long time to keep them occupied! And expensive too.

its not that short considering that secondary school kids get almost 3 months off in the Republic of ireland and in ukraine.

YABU, sorry. School isn't childcare, you need to sort out looking after your own children. Children need time to be children, education seems to be starting earlier and earlier and if you start cutting holidays as well when do they get to be kids?

If the holidays need spreading out more then fair enough but let them have the time off.

When mine were kids I used to share the holidays with two other mums, we would plan time off work and cope with six kids instead of our own two and it worked fine. One summer the six of them were away the whole summer holiday, two weeks in a caravan with me, two weeks in a touring caravan and tents with another family and two weeks in a cottage in Cornwall. They were so relaxed by the end of August and it was a brilliant summer.

Teachers yes. Parents NO