... to wonder if the school holidays really have to be so long

[Dieu]

Hi all. I should say at the start that I am a former secondary school teacher, so this is most definitely not intended as a school or teacher bashing thread!
I guess I'm fortunate in that, despite being a single parent, I generally work term-time (with some holiday work) and can take my kids along with me. However I do wonder how other parents, particularly those who work full-time, manage everything. You need a medal!
I think the current model is rather outdated. The days of mothers being at home every day to look after the kids, while said kids play outdoors all day, are over.
Many of the parents at my daughters' school seem to be able to work flexibly, but it has to be difficult for those who have no room for manoeuvre where their places of work are concerned. Several families I know have to take separate 'holidays' from work, in order to cover the long summer break. Holiday care can be very expensive.
No judgement, I would just like to know what others think.

They're too short. Fly by.

Iggi - yes in the holidays. There's evidence that children from more deprived backgrounds fall further and further behind after the long summer break.
Where's their support? How is the education system providing for their needs?
One size doesn't fit all.

I firmly believe that the children need the time off they gave at present to relax and enjoy themselves ( oh and learn in an environment outside of the classroom).

Also the logistics of trying to facilitate leave for staff members who are parents in an even shorter time frame would be beyond a nightmare, with staff either not having leave with their children or being fined for taking term time holiday. ( work in a 24/7 service so this is a very really problem for me far more than paying for childcare which is already factored in).

I really don't understand why people would want children in school more. They work so hard, even the little ones, and need time to enjoy playing and being children.

Yes, paying for childcare is hard but maybe we should be looking at why both parents have to work long and inflexible hours, not at making children spend even more time away from the home and family.

There's evidence that children from more deprived backgrounds fall further and further behind after the long summer break.

But the 'evidence' is usually US-based, and as another poster has already pointed out, the summer holiday is double the length of ours.

They work so hard, even the little ones - no, not all kids work hard at school - perhaps on Mumsnet everyone's child is hard working and does lots of homework but that's not my experience in RL and certainly not in my family. .

Rag - so what's the point in even sending them if you know they don't do anything? Surely as parents it's our job to make sure children work hard at school. They sure need to know how to work hard once at work

We only have five to six weeks of summer holiday here in Australia. When I was a child, it used to be eight weeks but we only had three terms with two breaks in between (instead of the four terms they have now with three two week breaks). I feel the summer holidays are over for them too quickly now :( Either way, some parents will complain about getting holiday care ... and do their level best to .. erm... offload onto 'friends'..... so I think it would actually be easier logistically the holidays were mostly all at once.

Art - I would genuinely love to know how you can make your child/ren work hard at school?

We have done all the 'right' things - pre-school education/read stories every night/helped with homework/lots of interesting outings to historical/National Trust places etc/read regularly in front of our DC/don't watch trashy TV/theatre trips/both parents hard working and responsible/engage in the local community/talked to every year teacher at primary and secondary school/employed a private tutor etc etc etc - all the time without being pushy 'Tiger Mom' types - but still, I have a lazy DC.

Totally genuine question - HOW do you encourage your child to work hard at school?

Art just to clarify, I don't mean to say that my DS doesn't do anything at school - clearly he does and he coasts along, does absolute minimum homework and gets slightly above average marks but my comment on this thread was in reply to posters who say children are 'tired' at the end of the school day or end of term and deserve a long break because they work so hard at school.

Perhaps that is 'good enough' and I shouldn't let his laziness worry me. .

Yes, paying for childcare is hard but maybe we should be looking at why both parents have to work long and inflexible hours, not at making children spend even more time away from the home and family

Yes!

My dcs are in Yrs 6 and 7. I love the long holidays. It gives them the chance to be the people they want to be rather than conform to all of the requirements imposed by school and other activities. They both do several sports and play a couple of instruments and (with some nagging), do their homework. There is almost no time for anything else (and they don't want to give anything up).

It all stops for the summer and they can do silly things and imaginative things and have down time.

Dh and I both work so over the years the dcs have spent a lot of time with their very lovely grandparents and dh and I have taken separate holidays from work to look after them and have arranged to work from home. It is a struggle, but I wouldn't want shorter holidays.

There are over half a million children living below the poverty line in London alone. Am guessing many of them are not spending their holidays skipping through fields or even playing in a nice garden after eating a decent meal. Let alone having fun, relaxing days out.

Society's needs have changed and state education (as with any public service) needs to adapt. It doesn't need to be mandatory to take up holiday/after school care. But it needs to be mandatory to offer it.

It's great that the current system works for many of you. But it doesn't mean it provides the care and support that is required by many.
(I'm definitely, unequivocally not saying teachers should provide childcare though. Just to be clear :)

Million - I get what your saying, but London is full of huge parks and free events. If it is just money that's the problem, children in London should still be able to enjoy the holidays as it shouldn't be related to cost. A free day at the park, picnic, free theatres, free shows and museums. Friends playing

Art - it isn't just about money. Disability, language barriers, cultural barriers (eg particularly for girls), long work hours (I've known families where parents are having to work 8-8, seven days a week. And I'm not talking about bankers), caring for elders/siblings, all play a part.
Even in London not everywhere is within walking distance of a park/theatre/museums and transport is not affordable for all.

Some parents are genuinely less able to help with reading, writing etc. We take it for granted that everyone can read with their children but it just doesn't happen.

Summer holidays are fabulous for some kids. For others its a time when they don't have the security of a safe environment and a decent meal for 6 long weeks.

Maybe its a lot more apparent in London (37% of children live below the poverty line here, more than anywhere else in the UK). The system fundamentally feels unfair and heavily weighted towards those already advantaged.

Word Ragwort

I would like longer holidays!
Actually if they were longer than there might be better provision of summer camps etc.
My children have always been exhausted by the time the holidays roll around. We have 2 weeks at Easter and Christmas, 1 week for each 1/2 term, and often barely 6 weeks (sometimes closer to 5 1/2) for the summer.

I'd just like to debunk the myth that teachers have more holidays.
Yes, they may be off work for longer periods, but a teachers salary is paid pro-rata so they are only paid for the weeks they are actually at work.

Timri - can you explain exactly what you mean or am I being thick?

I'd just like to debunk the myth that teachers have more holidays.

Teachers do have more 'holidays' than most employees - yes, I know that teachers have to do prep/Easter tuition etc etc but I think you will find that they do get more holiday than the average employee on minimum wage. .

Means they aren't paid for all of holidays. A bit like being on a zero hours contract, you might have time off (yay) but you have no option to work and you don't get paid for it (boo).
(and yes i know it would be much worse being on a zero hours contract, just trying to draw a comparison re the holidays).

..nothing to do with extra voluntary work regarding planning etc they may choose to do.

That's not true Timri. Other school staff get paid pro-rata, but teachers are full-time.

Teachers are paid for a number of days teaching per year - 195, of which 5 are training days. They aren't paid for any of the planning, school trips or extra-curricular stuff they have to do.

(Supply teachers get paid 1/195th of their annual salary per day. Contracted teachers get 1/12th of their annual salary per month.)