... to wonder if the school holidays really have to be so long

[Dieu]

Hi all. I should say at the start that I am a former secondary school teacher, so this is most definitely not intended as a school or teacher bashing thread!
I guess I'm fortunate in that, despite being a single parent, I generally work term-time (with some holiday work) and can take my kids along with me. However I do wonder how other parents, particularly those who work full-time, manage everything. You need a medal!
I think the current model is rather outdated. The days of mothers being at home every day to look after the kids, while said kids play outdoors all day, are over.
Many of the parents at my daughters' school seem to be able to work flexibly, but it has to be difficult for those who have no room for manoeuvre where their places of work are concerned. Several families I know have to take separate 'holidays' from work, in order to cover the long summer break. Holiday care can be very expensive.
No judgement, I would just like to know what others think.

I would really hate the holidays to be shorter. I have a job with flexibility so I'm lucky I know. But I really feel that the kids need a solid break from school. Bear in mind, as other have pointed out, that the UK has some of the shortest holidays (possily the shortest) in Europe, and alos North American.

What I'd like to see is a longer school day and more holidays, as they do in private school.

I don't know what everyone else finds, but when I need to organise childcare/activities etc, I find it much much easier to do with a large chunk of time, rather than a week here or there dotted through the year.

Yes, I understood your point - my point is that those millions are already being spent on the children, just by private individuals rather than via taxation. So although some expenditure would be shifted onto the public balance sheet, overall expenditure would not go up.

Possibly, what is actually needed is a complete change of mindset about the amount and kind of childcare children need.

IMO, once they get to about 8/9, there's nothing better for them than to be more or less ferel for the summer holidays. I didn't do it for my children but that had far more to do with the way I would be judged for it than any real concerns for their safety. An old fashioned send them off at breakfast and be back for dinner childhood would be far preferable for most children than organised childcare IMO.

Private school here, so even longer holidays. Sure it's tricky with childcare, but my children really need that time to just be children and play, spend hours outside and no homework stress. They had 1 month at easter and will have 10 weeks this summer.

Ideally, GottaFeeling!

My eldest is at private school, but she's 13, so less reliant on me for entertainment.

Gotta, yes to that. Kids need a change of mindset - a different kind of life, really. Completely step out of routine and explore other things, like cloud formations.

yanbu.

single parent here and holiday childcare £££££ has to go on the credit card. I'd be happy with a shorter summer holiday and keep the dc's working for a bit longer. I'm mean like that .

but the teachers need a break so I can't see how it can be changed.

I didn't realise private schools had more holidays - I just thought they were spread out differently. How many days are your kids in school artandco?

I think the long holidays are great for children - a much needed break and as a poster said above, the opportunity to get bored and find themselves and make different friends. BUT I do think schools need to address and provide the option of wrap around care and holiday clubs from 8 until 6. Not necessarily free either. A scenario as simple as keeping the school library supervised later or the playground watched whilst the children play football. I must also note that teachers should not be doing this - you could even get the sixth formers volunteering to do it!
The price of holidays in school holiday time is extortionate and ridiculous.

Theycallmemellow - I get what you mean, but I'd be interested to see a proper comparison of the actual costs. I still feel it's comparing apples with oranges, but I can see we may not agree on that.

I only mentioned it because I think people often talk about reducing the holidays without consciously realising that there is any cost implication at all for schools (e.g. some people may not realise how teachers' salaries are worked out, and maybe just assume they'd teach 41 weeks for the same salary as for 39).

Yes, I understood your point - my point is that those millions are already being spent on the children, just by private individuals rather than via taxation

But those 'private individuals' are actually the parents of the children rather than the other tax payers. So the cost is where it should be. With the parents who had those children. Why should everyone foot the bill for others children?

As others have said school is not childcare. However, i do think there should be more subsidy for childcare provisions for those who need it.

DH and i personally would rather longer winter holidays and shorter summer ones. Mainly because we like winter holidays better and don't really want to go abroad at the hottest time of year. 2 weeks for each half term and 3 weeks summer holiday would suit is much better. But obviously we understand that would probably be more difficult for most people.

Yabu. Arranging childcare during holidays is a pain, but I don't grudge my kids their free time. They need it, it's my job as a parent to cope (although I can't wait till they are old enough to be left home alone)

It tends to be that the holidays are longer Legs, not that there are more of them. In our case anyway.

Those with older children who struggle for childcare/holiday activities might like to look at Army Cadets. DS1 is away for 10 whole days this summer and it's cost less than feeding him at home!

Thanks for your contributions everyone! I've found them very interesting. Not quite the overall consensus I was expecting; fewer parents struggling with it than I'd have thought, so that's good!

You do realise that school does not merely exist to provide childcare and save parents money?

Surely teachers would have to be paid more too if their hours increased? So there would be large costs involved to school budgets? If their pay did not increase, they would be taking a pay cut by working more hours.

Thanks dieu. That's what I thought but a PP (i realise it wasn't Artandco) said they wanted longer school days and more holidays like in private school - so I wondered if I had it wrong.

I think the holidays are split in the wrong way. I'd like to see it changed by taking 3 weeks off the summer holiday, leaving summer hols at 4 weeks and adding a week to the spring half term, a week to the autumn half term and a week to christmas.

I think in terms of resting and recharging, several longer breaks are better than one massive one and the rest a few days.

YABU. School isn't childcare and I know that by the time the summer holidays come around both my kids and I need a break from the usual routine. They're tired, I'm tired. There's more to life tan sitting in a classroom (or office, come to that) and IMO the school holidays are every bit as valuable as formal education.

YABU. School should be run for the benefit of children, not the convenience of parents. Children need less structured time, not more.

I think children spend way too much of their childhood at school.
I wish they could only spend less time at school. I have a theory that,for the majority, they results would be the same if they spent less time at school and more time being kids. Of course, I'm not a teacher. But i think my son would get as much out of 3 days of school as 5 and he would be happier.

As a full time mum... I don't have an answer but I don't think more school is fair on the children or necessary.

I also think that many jobs (not care type obviously , lol and teaching before i get a beating. ) can be done in less days than we use. I know I can easily do 5 days work in 3. I think we are are stuck in a rut and need to rethink work/life balance etc.

I spent enough years at the chalkface to know that school is more than childcare!

School holidays are actually 11 weeks, for teachers in state schools, one week having been taken in 1987 to use for the ubiquitous Training Days that annoy parents so much.
I don't know how the length of holiday time arose originally; I assume it was linked to University terms, or whether it was deemed necessary for children, teachers or families to have long breaks, apart from the time in July and August when rural families were needed to help the Harvest. All countries seem to have long holiday periods for their schools.
Personally, I would have preferred longer terms, (most of my colleagues disagreed!) but with the proviso that no extra demands other than teaching were placed on teaching staff. Much of today's stress comes from trying to cram all the paper work, assessment, marking etc into 10 or twelve week terms, on top of full time teaching; little of it can be done in holiday periods, particularly as many schools are inaccessible to staff during this time.
As for childcare in schools in the holidays, I have run holiday clubs, and I would far rather teach. Schools are for education.
And the thought of all families trying to cram family holidays into shorter periods would a nightmare.