to be annoyed with MiL and think she should have cut DD some slack?

[Songofsixpence]

Had the PiLs to stay for the weekend, and MiL spent most of the weekend complaining about DD1's (who is 13) behaviour and picking at everything she did.

The in laws had arranged to get here about 6ish on Friday night. DD has an after school club on a Friday, she's a member of a team and doesn't like letting them down. The club finishes at 4:30 so she's home by about 4:45pm, in plenty of time for the in laws planned arrival at 6ish. Anyway, they'd decided to leave a couple of hours early to beat the traffic so arrived at 4pm. MiL was not impressed that DD wasn't home when they arrived - both FiL and I pointed out that they were 2 hours early

On and off over the weekend MiL was picking at DD - her hair (too long), her clothes (why doesn't she wear a dress - DD hates dresses, always has, but will wear one if she has to), she shouldn't wear make up, her 'attitude' - DD is 13 and just started her periods a few months ago (she got her period again on Thursday) and is struggling a bit with mood swings and hormones (she wasn't rude or anything, but was a bit quiet and tearful a couple of times). DH and FiL both had words with MiL about it several times over the weekend.

Anyway, yesterday we went out for Sunday lunch. Only down to our local pub for their carvery. It's nothing special, a quiet rural pub, all very casual. DD comes downstairs and MiL starts on at her about clothes - why doesn't she wear a pretty dress, etc. DD was wearing skinny jeans, a smartish top and some black pumps (not terribly different to what I was wearing to be honest). Then as we're walking down to the pub she's on a DD for dawdling and being glued to her phone (she didn't even take her phone out with her). In the pub DD was quite chatty, then went a bit quiet (not sullen, rude quiet or anything, just quiet) and MiL started on about her attitude again and how disrespectful she was, then criticisms about DD's food choices (DD and I are both veggie).

DD went off to the loo and I could see she was a bit tearful so I followed her to make sure she was OK, she said she was fine just felt like she wanted to cry. We had a hug and went back to the table.

So, we get back home and DH and FiL have a quiet word with MiL about the way she she treated DD in the pub and there was a bit of a row about pandering to teenagers and hormones are no excuse for bad behaviour and she insisted that they leave there and then.

Her parting shot was that by pandering to DD and excusing her behaviour as "hormones" we'd end up with a drug addicted tear away.

AIBU to think, that DD didn't do anything wrong, and there was nothing wrong with her behaviour. She wasn't rude at all (she was her normal chatty self, but felt a bit quiet and tearful at times). The way I see it is, she's a teenager, she has mood swings occasionally, it's totally normal and as long as she's not being rude, shouty and sweary (and there's little wonder she went a bit quiet when MiL kept picking at her all the time) there's absolutely nothing I can do about it

Your poor DD.

My mum's mum was like this to me. Hair too short, never wear skirts/dresses etc. She often said to me in the most condescending way possible, 'you should have been born a boy'. Quiet honestly at the time I wish I had!!

My other nan, who I doted on, was totally the opposite. Very positive and always telling me I am fine the way I was. The two nans had words once about me. They never met up again for many years!

I wish my mum and dad had stood up to her, but my nan was the sort of character that they couldn't/wouldn't.

If you can have words please try, but also remind your dd that her nan is a cantankerous old fuddy duddy, she is fine just as she is.

There's no excuse for this sort of crap from someone whose teenage years coincided with the Beatles.

I was thinking this, too.

If you wanted to find complaints from the 60's about how teenagers are out of control and ruining everything, you wouldn't have to work very hard to do it, at least not here in the US.

I don't know how old your DH or his sisters are, but I'd guess they're about my age (born 1975), plus or minus five years (am I right?). I can tell you there were lots of complaints about how awful and out of control teenagers were when I was one. Maybe the situation was different in the UK, but somehow I kind of doubt that.

She sounds like a nightmare, and she thinks that the world revolves around her. Clearly she is the Queen and all must be there to greet her at whatever time she deigns to arrive.

It does sound as though the "quiet word" with her wasn't working. She wasn't suitably chastened so she continued being spiteful. After one or two warnings I would have then given her a big and verbal public dressing down, in front of the children too. Leave her in absolutely no doubt that you will not stand for her bullying of your daughter or criticising your decisions. Tell her she can take her bullshit elsewhere.

I think perhaps your daughter needed to see and hear her family sticking up for her, and you shouldn't in future shy away from presenting a fully united front to her. She clearly felt picked on, and she was. If your MIL is behaving badly and you disagree with her then don't keep it quiet. Tell her to shut up if you have to.

On the very odd occasion my grandmother came to our house and did or said anything my parents didn't like or didn't want said in front of us children they had no qualms about telling her so. She wasn't a spiteful bully though, so it hardly ever happened.

My experience (as one of a family of 3 girls) is that quite a lot of people (and more women than men) seem to get very hostile to girls when they reach about your DD's age. I.e., stop being young children and start being teenagers/young women, especially when they develop physically.

We (girls generally, not just my sisters and I) were treated by a few people as some kind of radioactive threat to social order, nevermind that the worst thing we and our friends probably ever did was leave our French homework until the last minute.

Boys were not criticised like this, even if they actually did get a girl pregnant. All very Eve was framed.

I think the stuff about being in the park drinking cider and getting pregnant is significant. My grandmother said things like this. She was terrified of us becoming physically mature, because that might mean sexually active and certainly meant sexually attractive, which in turn meant we might at any time bring the family into disrepute with boys and tarty clothes, horrors! pregnancy! and worst of all, our own opinions and a failure to conform to conventional gender expectations.

So she took it upon herself to keep us on the straight and narrow by snipe, snipe, sniping away-no make-up, no this, no that, where's she going? Got a boyfriend?What! etc, every time she came to visit. Any glimpse of 'attitude' (i.e. not being completely supine in the face of all the disapproval) was a sign that our ruin was imminent. It was awful.

My parents did nowhere near enough. I actually longed for a row, at least I would have felt defended. We were made to be polite to my grandmother but she was never successfully made to be polite to us. I cracked aged about 15 because she was picking on my little sister and raged at her until she cried.

In short, don't put too much store by keeping the peace.

I think you handled that very well, especially showing solidarity with DD. If she doesn't grow up to be a wonderful adult (although I'm sure she will) it won't be your parenting that's to blame. Older relatives picking her apart and making her feel she can't do anything right might do it...

How old is your MIL? This is daft and rather contrived behaviour on her part. I know plenty of seniors, many with "old fashioned" attitudes. I can't think of a single one who would behave in this ridiculous childish way. Your poor dd.

I've just read your earlier post? 65?!! Sounds like she has this image of herself as some sort of 70s sitcom grand dame.
She was a teenager in the 60s ffs. The best you can say for her is that she is struggling with aging. The worst you can say would clog up this thread.

"there was a bit of a row about pandering to teenagers and hormones are no excuse for bad behaviour"

I'd ask her what her excuse was.

She sounds ghastly. I think turning up two hours early is awful manners, never mind everything else.

I wouldn't be having any 'quiet words' I'd be telling her straight that she's not welcome until she can stop treating your DD like a second class citizen. Your DD won't want any relationship with her at all if she continues in this vein. Your poor DD.

Can you pointedly invite fil to something not mil- end of term play/sports event dd is in. Get dh to tell her she will not be invited again to bully dd. it is nasty bullying.

For some reason MIL already had it in her head that DD was going to be troublesome. It's as if she had a script all prepared "Teens are hard work!" "Her parents ruin her by not addressing bad behaviour!!" regardless of how DD behaved. Of course by criticising DD she was also having a go at you and DH.

I am not surprised that she isn't keen on children - when they get to know their own mind and start to challenge the world around them, this sort of domineering personality feels threatened and tries to stifle any sort of independent thought or action.

monstrousratbag absolutely. Spot on.

She sounds awful. Well done on looking after DD and to your DH and FIL for speaking to her. There are so many MN threads where the DH does fuck all, I am really glad to read about a useful one!!

I know mil has been rude and unkind to DD, but I still think its helpful to try and figure out why she behaved like this. It's a shame to give up on her and DD having a good relationship. Kids only get 2 grandmas and they don't live forever.

I miss my grandmas. One of them was very domineering, rude at times and often nit-picked and sniped at me... but I knew she loved me and the things I learned from her stayed with me. I so wish I had had more access to her, but my parents found her hard to handle in my teenage years and discouraged regular contact. Looking back, a lot of her criticisms were just her way of showing she cared. She didn't have great people skills but she did her best to pass on advice she thought would help us. I look back with a lot of fondness and gratitude.

I think its too late to expect your mil to change, she's old and set in her ways. But you can teach your DD to deal with it differently. I suspect your mil feels DD doesn't listen to her and isn't interested in what she says, and the nasty jabs are an attempt at getting DD's attention. It must be hard for grandparents to see them growing away and maturing, in a world very different to the one they inhabited as teenagers. I suggest having a long chat with DD and helping her see where mil may be coming from, the fears and worries mil has, and then help them reconnect. R there any activities they could do together, just the 2 of them? Could mil teach DD something, like cooking a favourite meal or baking a special cake together? Grandmas are often different when they have grandchild's attention and interest, and are in the teaching role. If DD can take negative comments less personally, and over time educate mil about modern life, they could develop a very special bond that lasts well into DD's adulthood.

She sounds a right bitch.

I think the problem here is your MiL's prejudices against teenagers (or maybe just teenage girls), not anything DD did or didn't do. I think it's also possible that, no matter what DD did or didn't do, MiL would have found something to criticize. That's how a lot of people with a prejudice against a particular group of people are- no matter what a member of the disliked group does or doesn't do, it's evidence that that group of people are bad. If DD had skipped her after-school activity, it might have been evidence that she was flaky. If her hair were shorter or she didn't wear makeup, it might be unfeminine. You really can't please people who are prejudiced against a group you belong to, unless you can pass for a non-group member.

I feel sorry for your DH and SiLs, if she's been like this since they were teenagers.

The trouble is, Caspian, that we can't know and must beware of assuming. The MIL may, deep down be like your grandmother or she may be like mine, who divided in order to rule and never ever gave my younger sister a break for the rest of her life.

I find it very hard to see what the MIL did as coming from love and a fear of losing her grandfdaughter, I must say.

Don't lump all baby boomers in with this obnoxious woman.
The fact that she isn't all that elderly should make her aware that teenagers need a confidence boost-not undermining.

Above refers to your post namechanged.

Op, your DD sounds like a wonderful teenager. My DC would have been (and often were!) very rude in response to such personal remarks from a picky grandparent.

Just tell her that if she can't be nice to your DD she isn't welcome to visit. I pity your poor FIL having to live with such a horrible woman. Was she as unkind to your DH while he was growing up?

My MIL was a teacher and talked with great fondness of her teaching days and all the ways she found to belittle and bully the children in her care.

DD1 was the first and favourite grandchild and MIL disagreed with most of our parenting decisions and chose to try to impose her own form of discipline whenever she had the opportunity.

After FIL died when DD1 was 14 we invited her to us for Christmas and she nagged and criticised DD1 about her clothes, behaviour, table manners, etc the whole time causing tears several times a day. Her behaviour was just as appalling in other ways and to other people too. We didn't invite her to our house again.

She died last year and DD1, still her favourite, had refused to see her for more than a year and didn't come to her funeral.

I think its too late to expect your mil to change, she's old and set in her ways

Whao, just whao

First of all this woman is only a couple of years older than I am. My mother occasional blew it with my dd, but the next time I met her she has, of her own volition, without a word from me, changed her approach, and was older than this woman.

As someone has already pointed, this person belongs to a particularly mad generation when only the hippies were dresses and skirts. It never fails to amaze me how people can re-invent their lives when talking to young people.

And I never did miss my horrible grandmother.

She sounds awful-your MIL not your daughter obviously

After FIL died when DD1 was 14 we invited her to us for Christmas and she nagged and criticised DD1 about her clothes, behaviour, table manners, etc the whole time causing tears several times a day

Why did you permit that to happen? It's Christmas, your 14 year old daughter is being bullied to tears, repeatedly, in her own home and you allowed it to continue?

Why won't people just tell obnoxious relatives to leave? Why do parents put their children second to bullying adults?

It's essentially the excuse the DUP tosser tried this morning: "my wife is ill, which means I have no choice but to attempt to force my way into people's houses to repeatedly tell them how much I disapprove of their lifestyle". Just because your father in law had died did not mean that a 14 year old children did not deserve to be protected by her parents. You mother in law had choices about, for example, where to be: if she doesn't like the company, she can go somewhere else. 14 year olds largely don't.

I couldn't ask her to leave on Christmas day as it meant a 7 hour drive for DH. However, I insisted that she left on Boxing day rather than staying for the planned 3 more days. She was happy to go.

I did challenge her when I heard it but DD1 also hates conflict and would have been just as distressed by a stand up row so I had to try to find a balance. There wasn't really a good on TBH which is why DH took her home the next day.

I think she was glad to go as she never liked the fact that I challenged her behaviour. Apparently I always had far too much to say for myself.