To go on this holiday anyway?

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My sister lives in Australia, she lives there with her partner and their two children and has done for over 10 years. Last year, she was diagnosed with cancer and had a horrendous year with serious operations, one round of radiotherapy, two of chemo and a full hysterectomy. She was unbelievably brave and it was a really tough time, my parents took turns flying out there for long periods of time and the year took its toll on everyone. In February this year they all came back to the UK for an undetermined amount of time to rest. Her partner has since got a job here and the rough plan is now to stay until the new year. She is still finding life very tough, coping with two young children and the emotional fall out of cancer and the hysterectomy. She suffers with huge outbursts and since February has had fairly large arguments with my parents, her partners parents...99% of the time caused and instigated by her. That's the backstory.

In January this year, me and DH booked a holiday with my mum and stepdad. A week in Spain in a caravan, nothing fancy, two separate caravans. We paid for ours, mum paid for hers. After my sister got here my Mum started panicking and saying "maybe Stepdad could not come and Sister and her family share the caravan with me?" Mum mentioned it to sister, who was completely non committal and just said "yeah, maybe, if we're still here." I also discussed with sister and she just said "how much do you think flights would be?"

Stepdad has since decided he definitely is coming (serious birdwatcher, wants to see birds in the area ) so I phoned sister and said "this holiday, Stepdad is definitely coming, so if you did want to come you'd need to book your own caravan, shall I look into it?"

She has, completely lost the plot about this. Accused us of "colluding" against her, taking a free holiday away from her, and basically, rather epically lost her shit. She can still come, no one mentioned paying for her, and if it were a case of needing a free holiday, they're just about to buy her a significantly priced ring.

What are people's thoughts? Think I've given all the points.

Hit me with your worst.

Think of it as helping her to help herself. Honestly, it's not good for her to behave this way. She needs to learn to manage her own stress. You can't do it for her. She makes a choice, every time, to react the way she does, and if every time you react to her demands by doing what she wants you are actually reinforcing that negative behaviour.

So, the suggestion was for stepdad not to come and sister and her family to share with my mum. It wasn't accepted, but yes should never have been offered. Agreed.

Stepdad is nearly 80 and it would be too much for him to actually share with the young kids, not least because my sister still has large periods of the day where she's understandably tired and still needs the loo a lot (bowel cancer) so my mum would be expected to pick up the short fall in childcare. I'm obviously more than capable of looking after mine so it would have been "we'll see you when we see you" holiday if it was just us and my parents.

Sorry I'm rushing but YANBU or either is your step dad. She is. She can't use the illness as an excuse for drama forever

And what about the father of your sister's children? Where does he fit in to all this?

It's v understandable that your sister does not want to take more drugs at this point. Could either of you look up natural menopause remedies? The boards here might be a good starting point.

There will be other women who've had cancer and hysterectomies and have tried natural approaches. There are progesterone and other bio-identical hormone creams you simply rub into skin which your sister might consider.

I am not knowledgeable enough to recommend anything but they can be very effective and I really think the menopause issue, particularly so soon after giving birth, will be playing a significant part in your sister's emotions. I also think she really needs talking therapy too if that's possible.

I still stand by the not giving in to her and going on your holiday. There is nothing unreasonable in what you have arranged.

I'm sorry things are so difficult for everyone and if it's any comfort to know you sound like a fantastic sister.

From an outside pov, she needs rest, a lot of rest, that she probably hasn't been getting having two young children herself.
She also needs support/counselling. It must have been awful for her to be told she has a cancer 2 weeks after giving birth. I can only imagine thinking that you might die soon whilst holding a newborn in your arms :(.
Her temper is understandable because of the illness and its timing even if it's not acceptable iyswim.

BUT, BUT
You will only be able to help her and support her, as you have done so far, if you look after yourself too.
Her temper is taking its toll on you and on your mum.

I would actually cancel the holiday for all of you. Tell your sister that, as this holiday is causing so much pain to everyone, it's probably better that way.
Then, book yourself a holiday on your own. Ensure your mum is doing the same with your step dad so you can both have a breeak and recharge your batteries.

On a long term pov, I'm not sure what to suggest but counselling/ADs might be what she needs even she isn't ready yet to accept it.
What is her DH saying? Is she listening to him more and ne might be able to explain to her she needs some outside help?
At the moment, it seems that everythings is taken the wrong way, everything is seen in a negative light, that she never sees anything nice or good out of a situation. That in itself is a sign of depression.

How much will you lose if you cancel the holiday?

I would be tempted to cancel and then book something just for your family if it's not too late/expesive.

Whatever you do, don't say you'll cancel and then your mum suddenly offer to pay for your sister to have your caravan and then your mum has a miserable holiday waiting on them. Sounds like you all need a break.

As an aside--My dad is quite sad about the way his mum had to look after her elderly parents who both had dementia (they both moved into her home)-whilst looking after my dad and his small siblings-within months of the elderly parents dying, she herself developed cancer and died. He often wonders if the stress make her ill. You mum needs rest, too.

Exit not wanting to share seems reasonable. Your dsis sounds depressed and very stressed which is, of course, understandable. Would she consider going to counselling?

We'll lose around £600. We won't be able to afford another holiday to replace this one.

Her DH is under a huge amount of pressure too, he knows what she's like and doesn't even really want to go on the holiday. He says a self catering break isn't really a break with young children. She is exhausted but one of the reasons she's not going back to work in Australia at the moment is because she just wants to be with her children, understandably. She says this but every day she is asking my Mum to have them.

She says she doesn't need counselling. But, we should travel to London (from the south coast) to go to meetings about families coping with cancer. Ugh. It's all hugely complicated and there's a lot of emotions flying around.

Please don't cancel!

Let your mum and sister sort this out.
You are not going to get any sense our of your sister, so you just need to move on. Help her where you can, but do not let her ruin your holiday.

Let me see if I've got this right.

You've booked and paid for a holiday for your family. Mum and step-father have booked another caravan at the same time.

Your mum mentioned to your sister that your step-dad might agree to not go, so sister and kids could go with your mum and stay in her caravan. I'm unclear whether the cost of this was discussed, but it seems irrelevant to the question you ask.

Your step-father wants to go. This means your sister can't go.

You want to know if you should now cancel your booking?

No. You shouldn't cancel your booking. You are entitled to have a holiday without first providing your sister with a holiday too.

Happy to help.

Again, please, please don't cancel. You'll lose money. You and your family need a holiday.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to comment, everyone has been really helpful.

Yes collaborate that's the gist of it. She has an issue that something has been "given" (but not accepted) and then "taken away."

But not "given" by you. She sounds like a nightmare. You couldn't seriously have a relaxing holiday with her around could you?

She desperately needs counselling and she won't have been through the menopause so quickly. The denial, her obsessing over cancer forums and articles, the use of 'people like me', all point to a real emotional and mental crisis on top of the physical changes her body is now going through and the trauma her body has experienced. It's like a kind of post traumatic stress and she can't just get over it by herself. She needs help from professionals no matter what she says.

I know you know all of that but it sounds like she's blocking it out. Someone, her DH perhaps?, needs to get through to her.

It sounds incredibly hard for all of you. It'll get better. I don't think you should cancel the holiday. I don't think you've done anything wrong at all.

I don't think this is your issue, it is between your mum and your sister. They either all fit into the one caravan , try to rent a larger caravan instead, sister takes a separate caravan or doesn't go. The decision and who pays is up to them.

It's become an issue for me because I broached the subject, because my mum asked me to, because we feared a reaction like this! We've now fallen out and I've been harsh.

Hindsight! Wonderful thing.

I can't see how you cancelling will help her tbh. She still won't be getting a holiday and neither will you. Which isn't fair on anyone.

Why did they come back to the UK? I know you said 'for rest' but I don't see how she is resting more here than she would at home.

Can you make a deal? The family will make an attempt to do to the sessions she wants you to if she goes to some for herself? That's pressuming you want to go to these sessions.

Do not cancel. Seriously, just, no. Do everything you can to make sure your mum doesn't cancel either.

Your sister has been through and is going through a horrific time but that doesn't mean you aren't entitled to a life.

My dad has been seriously ill for many years and has had a lot of periods in his life when we thought he only had a few days left. I love him but he is vile sometimes and cruel and mean and selfish especially to my mum who is his carer. This isn't because of what's happened to him, or at least not solely - he has always been selfish and mean at times. It's very easy to think 'oh how could anyone be mean to someone who has been through X' but it's different when it's a close family member and they were difficult to begin with, and crucially, you aren't actually being mean or cruel or unreasonable.

Do not cancel. We gave my dad too much say in everyone's life's and let him guilt trip us too many times - it hadn't helped us and it hasn't helped him.

Thank you 306, that's really useful advice.

Schwept, prior to her being diagnosed with cancer she was planning on coming back to the UK to have a trial of living here on a permanent basis. She then stayed for her treatment for a year and came over her after that had finished. In Oz, they have no family, no real close friends and no support network. She is getting more rest here because she actually has people to be able to look after her children for her a lot of the time. She's also with people that love her.

You really shouldn't cancel your holiday, OP.

Could your sister and her family not book a third caravan? Which she would pay for.

Well, this is her issue. She was "given" a free holiday....

Not heard from her at all today.

Presumably all she'd have been given for "free" is the use of the caravan, not the flights!

How much would a 3rd caravan be? I'd be tempted to say the cost of the caravan is £x you'd still have to pay £y, can you even get insurance?

She is being totally unreasonable and tbh she needs to be reminded that life isn't all about her regardless of her cancer - could her partner be the one to smooth things out with her?

Ah right, I see. I understand that. But does she expect you all to not have a life while she is here? I gather she has decided that she is moving back and not staying permanently.

Could part of this be, that she is actually pissed off that she is here for say, a year, and is annoyed you are all going in holiday without her. You said your dh said she was difficult before. If the cancer hadn't ever happened and she had come over for the trial period, do you think she would have still been annoyed. Maybe she expected for everyone to revolve around her, while she was here, as her stay is temporary?