AIBU to be annoyed by dentist's response?

[SleepRefugee]

Reposted from children's health for traffic!

Hello everyone. Took my daughter (4) to the dentist today as we've noticed some erosion/decay (tiny gap between front teeth) but she took one look, said there's nothing they can do and proceeded to tell me off for allowing her juice . I know juice isn't great, my daughter will dehydrate herself to the point of constipation though. Anyway, we are working on cutting down on juice.

But is it true that they can't do anything about the decay??? It's only tiny so I'm sure no anesthetic would be needed. Do I need to find a different dentist or go private? Don't want the decay to get worse obviously!

Thanks in advance.

It's surely not that hard to understand. My daughter had severe constipation. Doesn't drink much water. Paed told us to increase her water consumption, even if that means weak juice or squash.

Shirley my DD refused water. She has some sensory issues and I think it must be related. Obv I haven't tested it until she died to see if she would refuse water that far but she has several times refused to the point that she's become rather ill, the most memorable being a period of 48 hours with no more than a sip or two of water that I'd literally forced down her via syringe but she cottoned on to that sharpish and started refusing to open her mouth/swallow. She was hospitalised. Even now squash is an effort to get down her. I have to stand over her and make her drink it. If water is on offer she refuses, even if that means coming home from nursery with a headache and feeling poorly because she's not drunk enough.

Obv dehydration in kids can be dangerous and none of us are going to stand back and watch our kids get more and more dangerously ill just so that we can see if just before they lose consciousness they drink the cup of water! I know with DD though, that this went beyond holding out for the "better" option. We are talking a 24 hour period refusing water and squash isn't much better but it's that or hot chocolate/milk which I'd rather not become the only thing she drinks.

Sleep, it may not be all down to the juice I am assuming she was bf as you said she'd never had a bottle. The start of the decay could have been bf and weaning. Breast milk doesn't cause decay whilst exclusively feeding but once weaning starts it can contribute if babies are fed on demand. It can take about 18 months from decay starting for it to be easily visible. If she had gastroissues I am guessing you've had all sorts of feeding problems before diagnosis.
DISCLAIMER I AM NOT GETTING INTO A BF ARGUMENT.

Or maybe the little girl's just unlucky and has a tiny bit of decay. Not the end of the world.

Ah yes, the perils of breastmilk. So unsuitable for the human race, especially "after weaning".

But you're right, I don't want to argue about that topic either. Suffice to say I have done a tremendous amount of research into infant feeding (not just related to my daughter) and do not agree.

Sleep I am going to back out of the room. You obviously have strong opinions and we are not going to agree.

Re the water issue.
If offered only water my dd would drink maybe four or five sips per day.

If offered squash, she'll drink a litre.
I would rather she have the litre of water than the ml's.

OK Millie, thanks for your input.

I do think it's cultural. I'm in Australia and a paediatrician and never have I had to admit a child for dehydration due to "not drinking water" when they were thirsty and otherwise able to hold fluids down. Sweet drinks are not offered at child care and strongly discouraged at school.

But Sleep - I'm with you on the breast milk. I'm an extended breast feeder and the odd night breast feed (after meticulous before bed tooth brushing) hasn't done my 4 any harm. None of them have ever had decay.

I should add - most people here give their kids water to drink at home too. Juice is usually a party food. My UK relatives' kids all expect juice when they visit us though

Blimey, you've been given a hard time here OP!
My 4yo daughter is like yours with water, she'll drink some but not enough to stop her getting constipated, so has some squash/juice/flavoured milk every day (also on doctors' advice). She was breastfed til 2.3. She eats sweets sometimes. Luckily her teeth are all good so far. Our dentist is far more relaxed than yours.
I believe there is an element of luck with teeth - I drank sugary squash as a kid, ate plenty of chocolate and loads of sweets as a teenager, and I've got to my 30s with no fillings at all. Sheer luck I think! Hope you manage to find a more approachable dentist.

Another extended bfer who agrees that breastmilk is perfectly suitable after weaning!

It's unrelated to DS2's problems. And DS1, who bfed on demand until 3.5, has perfect teeth.

those whose kids won't drink water. can you explain more
You honestly have found / believe that with drinking water available AND NO ALTERNATIVE TASTIER FLAVOURED STUFF as an alternative they would refuse water until they died^

DD refused water, and then milk too. After a long drawn out and terrible time (and her first hospitalisation) I was advised to try smoothies because they were 'thicker' but still got fluids into her. That worked. Over time we upped the water content of the smoothie until they were basically diluted fresh juices, then moved on to sugar free squashes.

When she was 3 we were in Cyprus and trying to get DD into a pre-school who said only water. DD stopped drinking altogether again and was hospitalised after 3 days where she didn't drink anything and temperatures were 35-40 degrees.

So yes. I think she would have refused water until she died. She nearly did.

Difficult one- I'm a dentist but I do give DS (2.10) juice once a day to help him poo (one glass of fresh orange or apple, with a meal), so I can see both sides of the argument.
I think your dentist was right to give you some diet advice, as tbh that and possibly fluoride varnish application will do most good long term.
It sounds like maybe you didn't feel listened to- sometimes you have to meet in the middle. For example I would suggest having water freely available all day but maybe giving drinks of juice at meal times- better for teeth but also making sure plenty of fluids go down.
3 monthly fluoride varnish application would help too.
Your paediatrician won't want to see your child admitted for GA extractions later if her caries rate remains high so next time you see them mention that the juice is starting to cause dental issues and ask for other suggestions- movicol?

Sleep, I think this is more about how the dentist spoke to you rather than the fact that you need to limit the juice; you get that bit.

I remember coming out of the dentist's once in tears with DS1 (then 7) after she had had a right go at him about his lacklustre brushing. I was so upset and so was he, but I told my DS (once I had finished crying) that even though the dentist had been horrible she had probably done us a favour. There followed a concerted effort of him brushing first and me checking/brushing and on the next visit the dentist was much happier. Now, an adult DS, he has no fillings and is on once a year check up. He still remembers that dentist telling him off.

I guess sometimes it's not nice to be given medical advice in what might not be a friendly way, especially when as is the case with your DD there are other factors which influence what you do. Thankfully I can count on one hand the number of health practitioners who have been abrupt in their approach over the years (2 DSs, elderly parents, cats) but it's drawn attention to the situation for me and enabled me to make informed choices.

Some posters have suggested a paint on enamel, maybe you could contact the dentist and say you've taken on board the phasing out of the juice and you were wondering about the enamel paint as an additional option? If at the end of the day you are not happy, then yes maybe get a second opinion. You might hear the same, but at least you are making an informed choice. Good luck

ex- I grew up in poverty in the 1960s. We had water as our only drink at home- apart from squash on christmas day or on a birthday. We simply couldn't afford any other drink. I was 14 before I tasted even fresh orange juice. All the other famililes around were in a similar position.

There was no choice. No one died of dehydration.

And? Are you saying that because you haven't experienced it, then it cannot happen? Because that would be daft, wouldn't it?

So you know better than the paediatric dietician that we saw the first time DD was hospitalised? Or the A&E doc we saw the second time?

I think we've kicked the arse out of this juice thing.

IMO, the issues are:
Dentist not explaining
Dr not taking teeth into account
OP not appreciating technicalities of filling child's tooth.

When I see parents of ill children who have additional dietary needs or parents of children with sensory difficulties (which is not often as I only see children on Sundays) I will try hard to work with the diet/drinking advice or sensory prob to ensure that we do prevention prevention prevention rather than watch decay happen and then blame each other and the Dr

That hasn't happened here and it should have done.
Enough about the fucking juice ok?

Hi, OP - I was going to give you a fairly resounding YABU - but then I saw you were re-posting here for traffic and you were just seeking advice. And plenty of that has been given here. So no YABU after all.

FYI - and I'm not a child - my dentist tends to take the wait and see approach with cavities. One actually recalcified by the following appointment bythe next appointment.

My vice is diet coke, rather than juice, and that is affecting my dental health. Dentist has advised using straw, and to avoiding brushing teeth after drinking, and I see you're already using a straw for drinking.

I mean when I talk to parents, not see them. Lecturing is generally u helpful but has its place sometimes. Largely when parents blame their children for eating sweets. Clearly not the case here...

Sleep,

My son is coeliac and had an awful time with dentists. He ended up having seceral baby teeth removed due to decay His sister had no decay.
One dentist was particularly rude and said I had spoilt him with sweets because of his illness - complete ignorant nonsense. He also blamed fruit juice which was stupid as my son did not drink it, and I never buy sweets.
My cousins 2 children - also one coeliac and one non coeliac- had the same - the coeliac had numerous baby teeth removed but the noncoeliac was OK.

Anyway, after several dentists, now go to private dentist it only costs a few pounds per year. She coated all his adult teeth, and his sisters. He eats very sensibly and drinks water, very dilute fruit juice and weak milk shake. Touch wood his adult teeth are fine.

Can your daughter tolerate nuts? I was told by the dietician that brazil nuts very high in fibre, but you still need the fluids.

Have you tried her with bottled water, it tastes nicer than tap water, and you can have some fun with small squirty bottles you can buy-

Managing special diet can be a minefield I hope you get this sorted out - coeliacs have problems with absorbing calcium and I am sure this is related,

you are doing a good job -

look after all her teeth though, not just the front ones, hopefully you wont need to have any extracted.

my water refusing child has profound autism. He was given very occasional juice and then, bam, one day refused anything else.mit was at the same time that he started refusing all but literally five foods.
It was hellish and terrifying.
During my attempt at 'he will eat if he gets hungry enough' he passed out at nursery.
Terrible times.

And I said more about the fucking juice..
In my defence I have not long woken up.

When was your DD diagnosed? My son was diagnosed at just under 2 years. He later had 8 teeth which were decayed and the dentist (the second friendly one who tried to work together with me rather than the first who just played the blame game) had them all removed to avoid risk of them affecting his adult teeth - he was a bit older than your dd.
Since then despite no change in his diet he's had no problems with any other teeth decay in his remaining baby teeth before they fell out and his adult teeth now he's 13. I do wonder whether it was a coeliac related issue as I'm sure I've read somewhere that the malabsorption before diagnosis can affect the development of the enamel and leave vulnerable teeth.
I limit fizzy drinks as they are corrosive, but he drinks mainly milk and fresh juice - haven't quite trained him to water like his brother.

Thanks, FastForward2. Yes it's hard, I did mention the calcium malabsorption issue to the dentist but was met with a blank look...

To the poster who suggested Movicol - well, DD was on high doses of Movicol prior to changing her diet (about a year ago), which she could only take with (not so weak) squash as the taste literally made her gag and heave. Within a week of eliminating gluten, we were able to stop the Movicol. But thanks for the suggestion! :)

As people have gathered, I was most put out by the condescending lecture given by the dentist (whose assistant also felt the need to pipe up with a "my children only drink water, just don't have any in the house") and her refusal to listen to me properly. It's not like I said I will let her have only juice no matter what - I even asked for her help saying we're working on having less juice, and only with meals, and so on... Her "help" was practically shouting "listen to me, no more fruit shoots" at my poor DD.

The point of my post was to ask about alternative treatment options. I will change dentist anyway as there are other ones closer-by and there's obviously no love lost there.

So, thanks again to everyone who tried to help and be constructive!