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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to want to shop another parent to the LEA for Primary School Admission Fraud

252 replies

eminthebigsmoke · 20/04/2015 12:15

A lady I know in passing has scammed her way to a place at the best local primary by renting next to the school for 6 months. Two days after offer day she is back at her original address near us. AIBU to think that she has cheated someone else's child out of a place and shouldn't be allowed to get away with it?

Has no bearing on what will happen to my DC as we're 20 odd places down the wait list for that school.

OP posts:
Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 20/04/2015 23:14

If she applied for the school when living in the area then maybe I'm Nieve but as far ad I'm concerned. She hasn't done an awful lot wrong.
As you said it's no baring on dc's education.
I sometimes think people have nothing better to do than run around telling tales about things that quite frankly do not affect them.

keepitsimple0 · 20/04/2015 23:47

Yes they could drop religious selection and the christian schools will be rushed by lots of people..and then what? The schools will be full. & complaints will start all over again.

it appears that you don't understand the complaint about faith schools. religious discrimination is bad, awful, segregating etc etc. faith schools are some of the few places it can take place legally.

not something to be proud of.

MistressDeeCee · 21/04/2015 00:03

Oh..and does that discrimination only apply to Christian schools or, are there other schools that are of concern? I wonder.

I don't have any complaint about faith schools as Im not against religious education in schools

ramanoop · 21/04/2015 00:07

Good on her. Any parent who is willing to throw away 6 months' rent so her child can have the best education possible has my respect.

keepitsimple0 · 21/04/2015 00:38

Oh..and does that discrimination only apply to Christian schools or, are there other schools that are of concern?

all of the religious schools. see, I am against religious discrimination. I am funny that way.

Good on her. Any parent who is willing to throw away 6 months' rent so her child can have the best education possible has my respect.

why give the money to landlords then? Why not just make it a fee and dispense with the faff? make it open and transparent: 6 months rent for a school place.

FireCanal · 21/04/2015 00:54

I'm not keen on people who try to bend rules to suit them. It disadvantages those who behave in a more civilised manner. So on that basis, I would report her.
For anyone who disagrees with religious criteria for state school entrance, the Secular Society have this as one of their main campaigning issues. It costs £34 a year for membership (less if on benefits).

LucyBabs · 21/04/2015 01:01

Is it illegal Confused

GratefulHead · 21/04/2015 06:17

Am assuming all you who think "good on her" would be okay if it was YOUR child who lost a space as a result. Nope? Thought not.

FishWithABicycle · 21/04/2015 06:46

I would definitely report this. It's against the rules so she has genuinely cheated, it's fraud and she should not keep the place.

What slightly (but only very slightly) irritates me is that it is perfectly legal for less affluent people to do almost the same thing. Those who never managed to get on the property ladder in the first place and rent their home privately can, perfectly legally, save up some additional rent money and moving costs during the preceding years then, just for the critical applications deadline time for their firstborn, move into an expensive house next to a great school, then when that 6 month tenancy is up, they move back to the more affordable area but all younger siblings get places in sibling priority. There are 2 families I know of who did this, but it's not breaking any rules.

Rules like this have to be enforced firmly - if you make an exception for this family it's massively unfair on those who had the motivation and resources to do the same but didn't because they are law-abiding, as well as those with the motivation but not the resources.

VivaLeBeaver · 21/04/2015 06:51

I'd report her like a shot.

Somewhere nearer to the school is a kid who hasn't got in who should have done. With a parent who can't afford to pay rent on a house they don't need for six months, or a parent who plays by the rules. Either way Id report.

Dd lost out on a grammar place because of shit like this.

MistressDeeCee · 21/04/2015 07:09

keepitsimple - yes..many people who claim to be against certain discrimination would cut off their right hand to gain whatever benefits there are to be gleaned from that which they purport to be against; if it meant their child would get a brilliant education theyd be in those gates in a flash, 1st to drop to their knees and make the sign of the cross.

As to the rest..good luck to anyone who wants to report what they see as school entry fraud. Especially if investigation takes a while and child is settled into school, nothing is going to be done about it. & there are far too many legal ways to get around the system as it is anyway; whatever is thought about that morally, many ways are legal. & schools don't routinely withdraw places or expel children for this kind of thing. Don't believe the hype.

Its the usual - instead of campaigning against a rotten education system, most will just spy on everybody else for the sake of upholding said rotten system. Then stick their heads back below the parapet.

Fraud..I wonder if they can include people who claim to hate faith schools yet will attend church for 2 years, will even quickly convert and have their growing child baptised, just to get them into a christian school. Im quite sure many will have done that but how far do people go with their "investigations". Whilst education is such a miserable lottery, many are the ways in which people will circumvent it in an attempt to get whats best for their child

FishWithABicycle · 21/04/2015 07:18

I wonder if they can include people who claim to hate faith schools yet will attend church for 2 years, will even quickly convert and have their growing child baptised, just to get them into a christian school. Im quite sure many will have done that but how far do people go with their "investigations".

But these cases are not fraud. If there are places allocated to people who go to church, and someone who has no faith chooses to go to church to get a place, no fraud has been committed. The places are not allocated on the basis of faith, only actions and provable facts.

I agree the rules could be improved, but it is more important that the rules are publicised, and rigorously and consistently applied so that everyone knows where they stand than it is for the rules to be perfect because any system of rules will have drawbacks.

ButterflyUpSoHigh · 21/04/2015 07:21

They can and do remove places obtained fraudulently. I know of a child removed in October once it was found the parents lied. Our local paper said they found 9 last year who were trying to get a place fraudulently.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/04/2015 07:36

It will never happen, but personally I'd remove all state funding from religious schools. I would also disestablish the Church of England and the Presbyterian Church of Scotland so we would become a country with no official religion, like France and the USA. I can see a point in requiring schools to teach children about religion and morality but I'd want it to be done in an objective way that encourages tolerance, critical thinking and open mindedness.

FireCanal · 21/04/2015 07:49

Describing the education system as "rotten" is ridiculous.

FishWithABicycle · 21/04/2015 08:06

personally I'd remove all state funding from religious schools

Gosh. So how would you then find the billions of pounds needed to buy or build new schools to educate the children currently going to schools owned by churches? Or would you forcibly deprive these charitable bodies of their capital property without paying for it?

Almostapril · 21/04/2015 08:07

I would report. It's fraud and deprived another child of the place they were entitled to. LAs have strict rules to stamp this out.
Anyone who says otherwise does not live in an area where this is a huge issue. They do not get that rules are for a reason and if everyone cheated when they wanted it would be anarchy.

keepitsimple0 · 21/04/2015 11:04

Rules like this have to be enforced firmly - if you make an exception for this family it's massively unfair on those who had the motivation and resources to do the same but didn't because they are law-abiding, as well as those with the motivation but not the resources.

one way to do it is that if you move a certain distance away from a school, you have to give up the place. Seems harsh, but I think it's the only way to stop this. As people have pointed out, it's too easy to beat the system.

keepitsimple0 · 21/04/2015 11:06

Gosh. So how would you then find the billions of pounds needed to buy or build new schools to educate the children currently going to schools owned by churches? Or would you forcibly deprive these charitable bodies of their capital property without paying for it?

it's mainly the building that a church provides. they don't provide the other funding.

I think it should be done a step at a time. First get rid of the discrimination, then slowly start moving schools from the church to the state system.

ineedabodytransplant · 21/04/2015 14:50

We're lucky in that the school I went to, my daughters went to and now my Grandson attends is the best primary school in the area. It's Catholic funded so no shortage of money, single-class years and has a great Head.(She's just not a great person)
My problem is the secondary school it feeds to. They set their heights pretty low

lucycant · 21/04/2015 14:57

I don't know any catholic school that is totally funded by the church. Generally they get the majority of the money from the state, and a contribution from the church.

RosesareSublime · 21/04/2015 14:58

I have far more respect for parents who go to lengths to ensure their children get a good education than I do for parents who just take their children to school each day and then do nothing to support their learning

Have to agree with this and feel more for the parents who have felt it necessary to go to such lengths to get good school places.

PtolemysNeedle Mon 20-Apr-15 12:33:59 agree with whole post.

I always feel with posts like ops, whilst its against the rules and so on and I would also feel deeply upset, deeply upset if my own DD lost out to this sort of practice, my anger is not with the parents but with the whole education system, with bad schools, poor parents, poor teachers, apathy and lack of interest in education, the government - not the poor parent who wants the best for their child.

I would blame the system every time.

Almostapril · 21/04/2015 15:15

I hate the assumption that people who accept the local ok school are not as interested in the best education for their children too. Insulting to a vast number of people.
Cheating is fraud and immoral

ineedabodytransplant · 21/04/2015 15:18

Lucycant, I'm not saying they are totally funded by the Church but no other school in the area has the facilities and equipment this one has.

RosesareSublime · 21/04/2015 15:18

Bad schools are more immoral robbing children of a future.