AIBU to want to shop another parent to the LEA for Primary School Admission Fraud

[eminthebigsmoke]

A lady I know in passing has scammed her way to a place at the best local primary by renting next to the school for 6 months. Two days after offer day she is back at her original address near us. AIBU to think that she has cheated someone else's child out of a place and shouldn't be allowed to get away with it?

Has no bearing on what will happen to my DC as we're 20 odd places down the wait list for that school.

I feel very strongly that this is wrong. Yes, you may feel it's wrong to have a system that penalises people who can't afford or don't, for whatever reason, live close enough to the school they want to go to. However, there has to be some way of deciding who gets to go where. The system and the inadequcies of the failing schools need tackling at grass roots level. This is about people who have enough money and ability to play the system getting what they want.

There is a family in our school who live, and always have lived in a village 20 minutes drive away. With a really good village school. They renovated their house and rented in our town whilst doing so because they worked here (estate agents so they knew the market and the system). Whilst here they decided they liked the local outstanding school and it was easier for them to send their kids to school in the town where they worked. She boasted about all this. They applied and got a place based on the flat they rented for 6 months. They then moved back to the village. They were reported, many times. People had screenshots of them living and socialising in their house from facebook. The place was withdrawn. They appealed it. They said they had every intention of moving back to the town as soon as they could find a new house. They owned a flat in the town, which they "moved" back into for a while to prove their intent. They never really lived there, but kicked their tenant out and put the hills back in their name. They "put their house on the market", but never allowed viewings and there were no details. They got a good lawyer who argued they technically hadn't broken the law as they lived in the town at the time of application and their intention was to live in the town long term. They won their place back. They were back living in their village house the next day, boasted about beating the system on fb. In the process she cheated her former best friend out of a space, as they were at the top of the waiting list. She has 4 children, so that's 4 places gone for local children. This wasn't about the difference between a good school and a failing school, we are lucky enough to live in an area where all the local primaries are decent. However, people would prefer to walk to school, and because of her and people like her, they have to walk past their nearest school to the one half a mile up the road.

The council know, and have privately said (as have the school) that they know they cheated.

A good lawyer and 6 months lost rent on their flat is undoubtedly cheaper than 4 lots of private school fees. This school is thought to be the equivalent in all but class size of a good private school.

She's divided the playground and a lot of people avoid her and don't encourage their kids to socialise with hers. She spends 2 hours a day commuting as the school run time is very congested. I wonder if she still thinks it's worth it.

I'm sure it's within the rules. It's just your address at the time of application. She could always say her and DH were going to split up.

I would leave it.

She may have done wrong but her child is innocent. And that is the person who would suffer most.

She may have done wrong but her child is innocent. And that is the person who would suffer most.

yes. And some other child suffers because of it.

Why does everyone seem to believe that living close to a school makes a place there good and proper? That is the most unfair way of all.

I agree, it's not a fair way to decide it. but simply breaking the rules and taking what's not yours isn't going to fix it. it's just taking a place from another child.

That's true keepitsimple, but everyone who has a place at the school has prevented another child from having one. I'm not advocating breaking the rules and I don't know the answer, but I don't see why renting short-term to get a place is more unfair than happening to have lived near a school all your life or having parents who can afford to permanently move into the area.

That's true keepitsimple, but everyone who has a place at the school has prevented another child from having one.

yes, but that's according to the transparent admissions criteria, which this parent is getting around in both the letter and spirit of the criteria.

It's not a perfect system at all. But this isn't the answer.

The rules have changed where i live and all children must go to the catchment school. The excellent school has 20 recp children as its and expensive area and mainly elderly residence. The other school has 47 recp with 1.5 teaching staff. The facilities cant cope hall/library etc the parents appealed and were all turned down. These parents wanted the better school and were prepared to drive. This made the school a better mix. However patents are now moving house - prices have dropped and the school has lost a lot of children which im sure more will follow. So doesnt work forcing parents into catchment schools unless the housing become a lot more mixed and council/owned properties are built side by side.

I am gald we don't have this type of competition where I live. Everyone just uses the local catchment school.

I certainly dont think its right that kids have to travel so far - passing 6 schools? . And yes to local schools for local children. Maybe parents should not be offered choice other than those with special needs? But again this will lead to housing increasing near good schools. There are too many rich/poor areas with schools that do have a higher proportion of special needs or high level needs - and teachers who dont want that challenge. Higher wages perhaps?

I am intrigued by the difference in the balance of responses to this type of fraud compared to threads about benefit fraud. People seem more likely to report potential school place fraud than benefit fraud. I'm not sure if that is because it is possible to identify the victims of school place fraud (the child at the top of the waiting list). Whereas benefit fraud does not have a single identifiable victim.

Definitely report. There will be a child not able to attend their local school with their friends from nursery because of the actions of this person.

Well its the warped system that causes things like this to go on, isn't it. Its a shame when parents have to become so desperate for their child to get into a good school. Report her if you like but it doesn't mean they'll do anything about it. Schools often don't. You could keep insisting they do of course..if you're going to hang around school on the 1st day just to be sure her child isn't entering the hallowed gates. But besides that yes, if they don't act then decide whether you want to take it further, or not...

It always amazes me how people know so much about other people's business on here..they seem privy to so much personal info. If this woman is scamming then more fool her for not keeping it to herself. & if she isn't scamming well then OP, just be sure you have all your facts right, before making that call.

This is all very Orwellian. Why are you reporting her if it won't even affect you? I think YABU.

This is all very Orwellian. Why are you reporting her if it won't even affect you? I think YABU.

I hope my neighbours don't have that attitude if someone breaks into my house.

I'd tend to think that if a parent wanted a place in a school that much then good luck to them.
I certainly wouldn't report someone according to gossip.

Another child isn't going to be made to suffer because of parents who do this, they will just end up in the same situation as plenty of other children who didn't get their parents first choice.

You can't steal a place away from someone who hasn't yet been allocated a place, therefore it's not stealing anything.

I get that it's a questionable practice, but the parents who want the best for their children aren't the problem here. The problem is a lack of primary places, a few schools not doing as well as they should, and large numbers of disengaged and unsupportive parents who allow their children to bring down the standards of behaviour at school.

Pico, I was thinking about that earlier today, because I'm usually one that, after an OP has posted that she has suspicions of benefit fraud, says they should report. But there's a big diffenrce between trying to fiddle the system because you're greedy and want more unearned money for yourself and trying to fiddle the system because your child is not going to get a good education and have a positive school experience if you don't.

I find it really hard to understand why anyone would criticise a parent who's just doing the best they can for their child within the system they pay towards and have to use.

I don't think I'll ever agree with you on this. All of us are paying into it, I don't see why it's okay for them to break the rules and gain an advantage by doing so. It feels a bit like doping in cycling; the people who cheat don't necessarily want to win more than the people who don't.

I checked out some of the benefit fraud posts in light of Pico's post, was really surprised to find so many aggressive posts aimed at the OPs in some of them.

I really appreciate all of the views and how balanced people have been here.

So, I'm a lioness, and there's a watering hole near us, but it's practically dry. There's a watering hole further away, but it already has as many animals visiting it as it can sustain without drying up itself.

If you saw an Attenborough programme, where said lioness muscled her way into the second watering hole, teeth bared, so that her new cubs could drink...would you think that was 'wrong' or would you think it was a mother trying to do the best by her offspring?

The benefits fraud analogy would be a lioness, sans cubs, who had enough water to get by, but couldn't be arsed going to that hole, because she preferred the other one, so muscled in there instead. Purely about maximising personal gain and minimising personal effort. Very different.

Everyone else (although actually she's probably not the only one) is doing their best for their kids within the boundaries of the rules set by the LEA. Luckily your lions don't have to contend with that

Lions would have no chance against the sharp-elbowed middle classes

I find it really hard to understand why anyone would criticise a parent who's just doing the best they can for their child within the system they pay towards and have to use.

because it is entirely against the rules? And while the rule isn't perfect, it is completely necessary because schools don't have infinite capacity, so there needs to be a way to exclude students. Some LAs explicitly state this is against their rules. Explicitly.

You are right that this is a symptom of the broader problem, rather than the problem itself. But simply cheating and flouting the rules isn't going to change the problem. Another child had a right to that place according to the transparent, publicly published rules. It is stealing. There is no other way to describe it. it's taking something from someone that rightfully belongs to them. if that's not stealing, I don't know what is.

Blimey there's some impressive contorting going on here. I do hope no-one gets stuck.
You can't steal a place away from someone who hasn't yet been allocated a place, therefore it's not stealing anything.
As George Orwell would have put it, 'Eh?'

I would report it.

Some other child has been deprived of a place because of her cheating.

As for the attitude that parents only cheat because they care about their children's education and that therefore they somehow deserve the place, it's beneath contempt.