Follow up on last post ref Head/Holidays/Fining System etc

[twinsplus1sfb]

Thanks for all your comments. My experience has obviously fired up a lot of feeling out there. I have read all your points with interest, and I have calmed down. I realise the head had no option to say what she did. I was not suggesting she give me special treatment, merely trying to find another way of her getting her SATS figures. I dont mind if the kids don't do them, what I do mind is that she tells me it will affect the rest of their school career. As I think that is just scaremongering.
I do feel the system has a lot to answer for - and it is the heads and the teachers that feel the brunt of a bad system - Education secretary please note - this system you have at the moment is causing friction. Surely there must be a more creative way to ensure everybody can go on holiday to have quality time with their children/learn about different cultures etc etc without having to pay double. Lay person suggestions: Different authorities stagger their holidays? Each child is allowed 5 days authorised leave per year? Lets make this a positive post and get creative and make suggestions to change the system we have in place at the moment.

Nicki, if I were to give you that example - x5, because there are 5 lessons each week, x3-5 for different subjects, would you be able to convert that into 'work to cover a holiday' as a parent?

Or would you need me to:

• Sift and select for what MUST be covered
• Re-write in parent-friendly language
• Identify, in advance, which level of differentiation your child required.
• write resources that you could use to deliver the content?

Yes, I could instead give you 'makework' to make you feel better - those few aspects that are simple to turn into worksheets, that are un-differentiated. But tbh thy are not going to stop me needing to teach the key other aspects to your child when they return.

So it's pointless asking you then?

I would be happy to be asked 'Is there anything that we should do every day on holiday that could be of general support to their class work?', to which I would reply

• Daily reading and discussion of reading book
• Times tables or similar if not already known.
• Some writing of some type, preferably each day but if not at least 3x per week.

But I would prefer you not to take them on holiday....

I'm trying to find out if it's worth asking my child's teacher for pointers or not. It really is as simple as that. Because if not I won't bother apart from a very general overview just to introduce dd to the idea of what is being covered.

I think if you ask in a general way 'we are going to be away, apart from daily reading there anything you would specifically like me to do with my child?' in advance, and 'Is there something from when we were away that you feel X would benefit from extra work at home to catch up on' after you come back, each time emphasising that you are looking for something general rather than for the teacher to provide you with resources, you will be OK and may get something useful.

The answer is very simple: don't do package holidays. If you organise your own flights and hotel, you'll find the prices are pretty much the same, if not all year round (August will be more expensive than January, clearly) but they don't vary the prices according to whether it's holidays in the UK (England) or not. So May half term will cost the same as the week before in May, or the week after in June. I don't think I have ever stayed in a B&B in the UK where the prices have been more in the school holidays than the adjacent weeks, in fact in most cases they have a price per room for the year, so it doesn't even cost more in August than it does in March, although they may have minimum stays etc.

And you don't need to go away in August, October half term can be lovely, and May half term is great for holidays in the UK. People just need to be a bit creative.

It is very amusing when local authorities DO vary their holidays and the travel companies get all in a muddle, happened a few years ago when Feb half term was different across different LEAs and there are ski holiday bargains to be had (if there is such a thing as a "bargain" when it comes to ski holidays).

Anyway most of this situation has not been caused by the government, it has been caused by some headteachers reaching ludicrous decisions. They do have the power to authorise absence in exceptional circumstances. While that does not mean "I want a cheaper holiday" it does allow them to authorise it for other very good reasons. Some of the stories in the media have been ludicrous and show HTs may be able to run a school but have no common sense.

And although I think 13 weeks in a year is ample opportunity to find a suitable week to take a holiday for most people in normal jobs, I'm going to be hypocritical and say that if the end of term was a Monday, and it suited me, I'd go away that week. But I think most schools would schedule an INSET day, they know the "sick" rate will be huge that day!

I would be in favour of a 2 week May half term and an earlier 2 week October half term, and only have 4 weeks in the summer.

For example, you may find out that they are going to be reading a parrticular book and you may be able to read it with your child instead. That sort of thing.

I've taken dd out in term time before and her teachers were very helpful and understanding about it, she has ASD as explained previously. They gave me quite detailed advice on what to cover and she seemed to slot in without too many issues on return. You'd prefer I don't take my dd out on holiday during term time and I'd prefer not to have to accommodate autism in two children as a lone parent but it is what it is and without meaning to be offensive I am glad I don't have to deal with you as dd's teacher and that hers are more sympathetic.

Cross posted.

Op I love how you are trying to justify holidays in term time by using the learning about different culture angle! Whenever my class come back from holidays abroad it's all about the water park, the beach and the pub! Not saying that holidays aren't beneficial or cultural learning experiences but the vast majority aren't are they? Beach, pool, restaurant, sleep, repeat.

Sorry. My wording sounded like hols weren't beneficial. They are of course. They should be in school holidays though.

But that's assuming every person goes on a package holiday to the med. Our last holiday was to the UAE. We went to the grand mosque, the fourth largest mosque in the world, learned to use the metro in Dubai, went to the spice and gold souks and went canoeing around the mangroves.

I'd say ours was definitely a massive cultural experience. We self catered too, don't usually when there, so there was shopping and visiting the markets etc. Unfortunately my dc ate the same restricted diet they eat everywhere else but at least they got to actually see dates growing on palm trees and the different ingredients used in Arabic cuisine.

But again you can't judge everyone on the minority, which holidays like that are.

And again holidays like that can still be done during school holiday time!

This one was done during holiday time . The next one can't be though as my dc wouldn't cope with it otherwise.

And on what grounds do you say that kind of holiday is the minority? I think it's quite dismissive to assume that the majority of holidays are pub, pool, water park etc. it's certainly not in my circle and I am not one bit posh or well off. Everything is done on a budget. The flights for the UAE were bought in the BA sale also using avios. It's actually relatively cheap when you get there as it's so competitive.

But Heads can't authorise holidays based on a perceived cultural benefit. A week in Skegness to one family might be as important as a week in Mongolia yak herding to another! ( And possibly the family who can only afford Skegness might need the term time holiday more than someone who can contemplate Mongolia!) Whatever you do, it's a mine-field!

I agree Spaniel. I don't think it matters where you're going or what you're doing myself, I was responding to the assumption that all holidays were pub, pool waterpark etc and therefore not of value. I think any holiday anywhere is important for a family once or twice a year and should be made possible by flexibility around term time holidays, but I know I am in the minority on here and probably always will be. In RL however I don't know anyone who doesn't agree and that includes numerous professionals involved with education.

I agree holidays can be important but they aren't more important than education, and IMO except with extreme circumstances you holiday within in your means during school holidays.

During term time children should be in school unless there is no other option.

Apologies, I had missed the post in which you had talked about your dcs' autism, and so I was replying in a 'general' way. I am also very much less blunt in person - a parent walking away from my classroom having asked for holiday work, and having been given reading + writing + times table / maths facts advice would feel that they had been given holiday work because that is how I would represent it.

"she seemed to slot in without too many issues on return": I have absolutely no doubt that this is true - it would be said about every child who takes term-time holiday and slots back into my class, because it is my job to make it so - allocating my own and my TA's time (as I said in an earlier post) for exactly that purpose.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the holiday work was what allowed her to slot back in without issues - I do not give specific holiday work, just the very general 'reading and writing and times tables' advice, and simply enable the child's smooth return through in-class support on their return. But the whole class would make more progress if that support was not necessary IYSWIM?

The world has gone mad, the education system has lost sense of what it should be there for the broaden horizons and educate our children. Instead it has become a box ticking, target orientated, assessment focussed system which has lost sight of the individual child. Everything is about the school rating, attendance levels, results etc so they can get there osfted rating. Children & teachers are having so much pressure on them that the entire process is becoming unenjoyable.

My mum took me to south of France for the last 4 weeks of primary school. She would probably be shot for that now but it was a great experience we had private French lessons beforehand and we lived on a little French village for the summer & it was a great experience. The school were very happy with that.

Ruyperta, tbh the last 4 weeks of primary school would seem to me just about the best possible time for a holiday, and I can think (as a teacher) of no reason why any Year 6 child (in schools that cram for SATs, who though I have no experience of one, appear to be verty common) shouldn't go on holiday then.

2 weeks in the middle of the Spring term of Year 4? Less so.

"I think any holiday anywhere is important for a family once or twice a year".

Agreed. But since most discussions are around how much cheaper it is to g abroad in term time rather than in holiday time, it is very rarely a matter of to go on holiday vs not to go on holiday at all. It is about going to a 'preferred' place - abroad, warm - rather than e.g. camping in Dorset or youth hostelling for a week in an obscure part of the UK.

I worked with a will to catch up 2 children from a family of 5 who had been enabled to go away on holiday as a family for the first time EVER by 3 days of mid-term time holiday in March. That was a genuine one-off. Less keen on the family who took 2 weeks every year to go to the Carribean 'because it is so much cheaper in term time, we simply couldn't AFFORD it in the holidays'

I think that teachers should have a 10 day holiday allowance as well, with the same rules of good general over all attendance applying. One class at dc's school has had 8 different teachers since September, due to them leaving. Parents at other schools in the area have reported 14 different teachers in their class since September. Surely this is even more disruptive? We knew one teacher quite well, and she was very upset to be leaving. But her husband hardly saw her, and her 14yo dd wanted her mother back. Family time is important. Maybe if there was slightly less pressure for stats and numbers to look good, teachers wouldn't be leaving in droves. I understand that being a primary school teacher was, although still hard work, once a rewarding and enjoyable career. Some teachers who have now left, had been teachers at the school for years.

Surely there must be a more creative way to ensure everybody can go on holiday to have quality time with their children/learn about different cultures etc etc without having to pay double

You seem to have forgotten that in your first thread you were claiming that the reason for the term-time holiday was that Grandad made a mistake with the dates

Authorising no holidays is better than allowing them only to those with good grades or high attendance. That would be unfair to those with health conditions and disabilities.