AIBU 9 & 7 yr olds shouldn't ge left alone??

[eeyoreandpooh]

AMIBU to think it's not right to leave a 9yr old and 7yr old alone playing in a park while you go to the shop? Said shop is a car drive away - not just round the corner or over the road

And I am a parent sing too.
Not neglectful, not irresponsible just different.
Unhoik thise judgy pants and realise we all make judgement calls every day about our children that are right for them and their environment and maturity.
And quite frankly if the pastoral team in your school are worrying abiut whether teenagers are walking to school or getting the bus they need more to do.

In order to make streets and parks safe, we need more children, not fewer.

oh dear
having to discuss your child in the playground rather than making an appointment
assuming parents are themselves available at the start/end of the school day as an important part of their childs education
is this a rural school in the 1950s?

At the end of the school day they make their own way on buses or walking but parents are still asked to notify the school of which

Really, do they have to inform you every day if parents are picking up or they are walking, or they are going to a friends at the age of 11 or 12 or 16, how ridiculous. My dcs school has one of the best pastoral care around. They aren't interested how the dc get home, but they are interested if they get into trouble on the way home. DS was mugged (more bullying really ) by a boys from another school on the way to/from school and they were brilliant even offering to send a taxi for a few days just in case he became reluctant to go to school. One of the boys school helped identify him to the police (even though it was out of school time) the other wasn't interested. The first two schools are known for their pastoral care, the third has a bad reputation.

Thankfully ds was fine to carry on. He was always independent and no way would I have smothered either of my children by only allowing them to start walking a short distant to school at 11.

When mine are 7 and 9, I would certainly expect that I can leave them in the park alone. Luckily I live in the area where this is expected and normal.
I remember when I was 7 myself and I certainly didn't have mum hovering around at all times. And no, world is actually not a more dangerous place nowadays.

It's more dangerous NOT to allow a child to build up independence gradually. My DD is nearly 7 and I'm always thinking of little things she can do by herself or for herself. It's not because I can be arsed to parent her but because she is getting older and I want her to be a fully independent person once she's in her teens.

Parents being around at the start and end of a school day at juniors is, in my opinion, really important in supporting children in their education.

I'm in the US. Many kids go to/from school on a school bus. If they arrive by car they are dropped off in front of the school and make their way into the playground themselves. Many of them also ride or walk unaccompanied by parents. Parents never go onto the playgound and rarely into the school.

We're still perfectly capable of talking to the teachers. We email or text or call them and they reply promptly and have a quick chat if they're free at that momet, or set up a time to talk.

Having said that parents rarely go into the school, I'm talking pick-up and drop-off time. OTOH they are welcome to come into school at lunchtime to eat with their children, and they can also volunteer in the school if they have the time. I do both.

Ghoul- of course and so do I. There are many many ways to develop a child's independence without going the whole hog and leaving them alone somewhere! My child confidently goes on Brownie camps, goes to friends houses on sleepovers, out with grandparents etc. She does many many things for herself.

Oh San- what a ridiculous comment. You don't HAVE to discuss your child at the start and end of the day. You can, obviously, make an appointment to go in whenever you wish BUT some things are more instant than that. Sometimes you want to ask a quick question or mention a small issue where an appointment would be a major overkill.
Can't actually believe I'm justifying the reasons why daily access to a primary school teacher is a good thing for a parent.

The lack of comment on the key point I made has been noted.
Where teachers are legally responsible for the safety of your child (breaks, lunchtime and lesson time) your child WILL be supervised.
Most people seem to agree that they are happy with this and would have a big issue with their children being left unsupervised at school. What's the difference?

"Why schools supervise during the day", I said upthread that in my school it is mostly about reducing bullying and preventing damage to school property (so actually I did comment on your point). I don't work in a primary, but I imagine that given the wide range of ideas about when parents are comfortable leaving their children alone, and lots of individual differences between children, it is far easier to have a blanket rule of "always supervise". And, actually, I would also be surprised if primary teachers stood outside the toilet door whenever a child needed the loo!

Your lack of response to my description of how systems work successfully in other countries has been noted singsong :-)

I just wouldnt. Why take the risk. You can teach independence in myriad other ways. Our local park in a rather lovely town - and whats considered a 'safe' area is in fact a predator's paradise with lots of tucked away hidden corners and 3 different connecting alley ways/paths to town. Over the years there have been several 'incidents' with pre teen and teenage girls in the alleys and in the park. I totally appreciate more modern parks are more open plan but even so, for me, 7 and 9 is too young to fend off potential predators.

A teacher doesnt have to be standing in the playground to be available. We just went into school and saw the teacher in the class room in primary, which was much more private. The secondary school has an email address for every teacher on its website and we nearly always get a reply within a few hours.

Jessica- funnily enough I worked in a primary for a while and we did in fact take groups of children and wait outside the loo before lunch etc. Children weren't allowed into the building alone at break times either. Even in secondary schools, duty staff generally patrol corridors which often means lurking near toilet doors as that's where the problems tend to occur (smokers etc).

Staff aren't only around for the protection of the building. Most staff teams care more about the children than the bricks and mortar, as parents would hope I imagine. Staff supervise behaviour and ensure that children play safely. You mention bullying as a reason for supervision, do you not think bullying can happen in public playgrounds then?

Lert- I didn't notice your comment but I will attempt to find it.

Singsong why can't you just accept that a lot of people think 9 is a reasonable age to leave a child unattended for short periods of time? Without implying that they don't care about their child's education, or that they are being neglectful in some way?

sing, I would argue that staff are primarily there to teach. Preventing injury is obviously part of the job, as is reducing bullying and protecting school (and other students') property. I am not saying that staff care more about property than they do about students. I am simply saying that bullying and protecting school property are the main reasons why I'm not permitted to leave a classroom full of kids alone.

You have been using "schools supervise children" as a way of proving that children need to be supervised at all times outside school for their safety, but I am arguing that school supervision isn't necessarily about preventing accidents, and that the two situations (park and school premises) are not a good comparison.

I certainly do think that bullying can happen in parks, but I don't think that school and parks are comparable situations when considering bullying. Partly because children aren't permitted to just walk away from school when they (usually) could just walk home from a park, and partly because sheer numbers does have an impact.

The final reason that school premises and parks can never be comparable is that schools require all adults working on site to be dbs checked, and visitors are accompanied. In a park / shopping centre / toilets etc a child could meet any random stranger.

Interesting final paragraph there Jessica! So you are saying that schools (where children are well supervised) are safer. I agree completely with this. It is one of the reasons I wouldn't allow my 9 year old to go to a park alone. You have absolutely no way of knowing who will be around- and that's before you begin to ponder road safety, accidents occurring, bullying (it takes only a handful of kids for there to be bullying- in fact, it takes only 2) etc etc. Just not worth it for me I'm afraid.

Oh and to Lert- I read with interest your comments about the US. I also read the many news articles on line about parents in the US being arrested for leaving 9 year olds at parks.

What news articles? Links please otherwise its just heresay

I'm on my phone and anyway, there's too many to link 001 but google 'US parents leaving 9 year olds at the park' and it'll give you lots. There's also several stories on line about parents being arrested for leaving children alone in cars.
There's also some interesting stats from a poll by Reason.com in the US which states that 68% of adults polled thought 9 too young and that in fact 63% considered 12 to be too young to be left alone. Again, Google it.
My point really is that certainly not all Americans allow their kids to roam free as suggested below. In fact, when they do, arrests seem to follow.

yes exactly, who wants to end up like the usa? paranoid parenting at its worst (but guns galore)

My dad at age 9 and 10 used to go the park on her own and meet friends.

One of them funnily enough did have a bad accident and impaled her hand badly on a tree, needed major surgery. There wasn't an adult there, other kids had to run for help. I know this kid fairly well, she often comes round here and I don't believe SS were ever involved.