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Original poster

To think some people have their heads in the sand about poverty in the UK?

246 replies

MrsFlannel · 10/04/2015 10:28

On here we see a lot about "Don't have children you can't afford" etc.

this article in the Guardian really brings home the effects of poverty today and it's really breaking my heart.

By rights I should be among those who are struggling so badly...and in one way we are...but because I managed to get a degree and get my DC into a school which is good despite living in a very poor area, we're not quite in the trouble many people around us are.

We live in a council estate...all around me is quite terrible poverty. The upsetting thing is that whilst DH and I have decent work...it's not enough to be able to donate to food banks etc....we only scrape by. I'm sick of the people who deny that there's a problem...or shove blame onto "feckless parents"

OP posts:
bananaramadramallama · 11/04/2015 00:49

New - You are always, always worth more alive Flowers

I have had the 'rainy day' thing drummed into me from childhood; my mum still lives in fear of not having enough money and has stashes everywhere (not just in a bank account, but various round the house).

I always have a stash too - I can always lay my hands on around £500 - £1000 if the shit hits the fan. I built it up over time when there was not much spare and don't ever touch it now, 'just in case'.

It's something I am trying to get across to our kids too.

Tobyjugg · 11/04/2015 02:03

Out of all the comments on this thread so far, the only one that has left me open mouthed is:

I've always maintained there are no stupid people

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 02:32

I agree with the other people on this thread who live on council estates and see both sides of it as i have lived on mine most of my life. There is so much going on and so many reasons why people are poor. I know single parents on the fiddle with a partner living with them coining it in, i know some mothers who keep having another kid when their youngest starts school so they can stay on IS, i know people on JSA through no fault of their own are in a 2 bed house paying bedroom tax and living on less than £50 a week as there are no 1 beds but can't find work in the part of the country with the highest rate of unemployment, i know parents who piss their benefits up the wall, i know people on benefits who budget and feed their kids well or do without, i know hard working couple's just managing to scrape by as they can't get much help but have to pay for nurseries and hard working single parents. I know people struggling to pay bedroom tax in a house which is too big for them but they cant find work and i know hard working low paid families who were living in cramped conditions or on the homeless list who have got a 3 bedroomed house after it was introduced and their was movement between properties. What make's me laugh is people who have never been poor or lived on a council estate thinking they know so much about being poor and how to fix them.

I seen a huge change in people starting to work when the job centre put their foot down and told them find work or get no money but i also know people who can't find work even though they are applying for 100s of jobs being sanctioned, i was one of them.

IDK what the answer is but i know the issue is huge and wide ranging so blanket reforms probably won't help. It's not black and white but the 'feckless poor' don't need people who have no idea what it's like telling them what they should do.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 02:36

i know that post is terrible but im tired and should have read it back

LotusLight · 11/04/2015 06:25

I think it's a good post and represents the whole picture - i.e. it is hard to generalise (indeed about any groups of people) and the difficulty for a wefare state is how to ensure the money goes where it is needed but does not embed poverty and incentivise people not to work or only to work part time.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 13:06

I seen a huge change in people starting to work when the job centre put their foot down and told them find work or get no money.

Just to clarify, this wasn't because some of these people didn't want to work before but the job centre became very proactive in making/helping people find work. I got a lot more help, i think people before that didn't get as much help, wenr't as proactive in looking for work

But i know there are people really struggling where i am to find work, jobs i could walk out of and into 10 year ago just don't exist any more. I took a job i don't like and work for min wage but i am better off than i was, these jobs are far and few between because everyone wants them especially part time 16 hrs. Took me 8 month of constant job hunting, i applied for 100s of jobs got 2 interviews and both asked if i had kids, never heard from them again.

Marmaladedandelions · 11/04/2015 13:08

Gosh, they shouldn't be asking if you have children, surely? Shock

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 13:11

The 2 interviews i got were for telemarketing, these were the only 2 that offered me an interview out of the 100s of jobs i applied for. on universsal job match you have to apply for whatever they tellyou to apply for, mine was set at 45 actions a week to seek work. They interviewed in batches of 15, 15 in room, 15 in waiting room, 15 in waiting room as we come out. Mainly students and single parents and they were pretty brutal to weed us down, what will i do for childcare if i get a phone call saying we need you in in the next hr? I answered honestly.

Littlemonstersrule · 11/04/2015 13:14

So many want the 16 hour jobs as that's the magic number for tax credits, minimum effort for maximum money.

People are too picky and benefits allow them to be. Until harsher sanctions are in place and tax credits abolished people will play the system.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 13:16

I noticed a lot of 12 hr jobs when i was looking which i never really noticed before, i wonder if this was so they didn't attract SP, maybe geared towards students instead, seems like sp and students are both looking for the same work

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 13:24

Until harsher sanctions are in place and tax credits abolished people will play the system.

TBF the sanctions are now pretty tough now, i struggled to meet the targets set out and i spent most of my day job hunting and on courses. If you don't meet them they will sanction you.

The courses were pretty shit though, geared more towards people who have never worked of varying abilities. The employability course for instance had people with professional CV's who were better qualified than the turtor and people who could barely read or write so the courses were pretty slow going, the tutor said his job would be easier if they sorted people into what they need everyones benefit. Done a lot of courses mainly funded by the European Social Fund.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 13:25

Jut to add re the courses, if you have kids you are given childcare and bus fare. If you don't go your benefits are stopped

mariamin · 11/04/2015 13:29

The courses are totally insulting for those who have a history of more professional jobs. They actually take time away from you being able to look for work.
Also the target for applying for jobs, means as an employer, I get loads of applications that are totally unsuitable. I stopped advertising more unskilled jobs at Job Centres ages ago because of this. They used to be a good source of candidates for unskilled jobs, but now you get highly qualified people applying for a 4 hour cleaning job, and you know it is just to meet the targets set by the Job Centre.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 13:33

The courses are totally insulting for those who have a history of more professional jobs

Totally agree, because people have to apply for a set amount of jobs they apply for anything to satisfy their job centre target. I did.I applied for jobs i wasn't qualified for and hrs i couldn't work. For instance i would apply for bar work knowing i would struggle to find childcare for 3 kids, when they rang for me to go for an interview i would ask are there any hours finishing at 6pm, obviously there wasn't as if there was they would have advertised for them. I could still put that on my job sheet as an action. Total waste of their time ringing me

expatinscotland · 11/04/2015 13:36

'So many want the 16 hour jobs as that's the magic number for tax credits, minimum effort for maximum money.

People are too picky and benefits allow them to be. Until harsher sanctions are in place and tax credits abolished people will play the system.'

Not true at all. Fifi must live in a place where there are no zero hours contracts. Where is this? Plenty would love an area like this.

All the jobs I've seen advertised lately are zero hours.

mariamin · 11/04/2015 14:02

I see lots of zero hours and anti social hours jobs advertised. Getting childcare if you dont have a partner or family who can do it, so you can work in a bar in the evening or in care, is almost impossible.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 14:03

Og course there are zero hr contracts here, there's a huge demand for job's as we have the highest rate of unemployment. I need to work 16hrs to get tax credits but work 25 hrs. I have no idea how the zero hrs contracts work with tax credits as you need to work 16 to get WTC, how do they work around that IDK

OnlyLovers · 11/04/2015 14:04

So many want the 16 hour jobs as that's the magic number for tax credits, minimum effort for maximum money. Until harsher sanctions are in place and tax credits abolished people will play the system.

Do you actually enjoy going round thinking so badly of other people? Not just you, Little, but everyone on here who's trotted out the same kind of thing.

It must be so embittering to be constantly thinking about how other people are playing the system and trying to get money for nothing; looking at the size of people's telly and the number of children they have and if they have the newest iPhone, and working yourselves up into righteous anger about how many liberties they're taking.

Littlemonstersrule · 11/04/2015 14:08

Only, the thread is about "poverty". Whilst we have people wanting to not work or just do 16 hours it's not going to help the children is it? Far easier for people to blame it on the government than admit they made bad choices or admit they don't want to work/work much.

OnlyLovers · 11/04/2015 14:09

Why "poverty" in inverted commas? Do you think people are just saying they live in poverty?

The numbers of people playing the system/not wanting to work are tiny.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 14:10

I work twilight shift, i can only do it as i have childcare which is not a nursery but someone without the help of friends or family couldn't work my hrs. I used to apply for bar jobs finishing at 4am in the city centre or cleaning jobs starting at 6am which i couldn't do due to childcare problems but it meant i could take it off my target by proving i had applied for it. Employers know SP will apply for the 16hr jobs so if they advertise less than 16hrs they wont get them, will probably get students instead unless they work 2 jobs to make the hours up. People still apply for them to knock it off their target.

mariamin · 11/04/2015 14:12

Most people want jobs that actually give them enough money to live. 16 hours only counts for tax credits if you have children to look after, for everyone else, it is 30 hours. Childcare is expensive, if you don't have family or a partner who can provide it.

DrasticAction · 11/04/2015 14:15

Sorry but the roots of this have always been there and it was under TONY BLAIRS government that it got WOrse do you think Labour is going to fix this?

The gap grew between poor and rich like never before under Labour, then they flooded the country with even more poor people, what does anyone expect?

Fifis25StottieCakes · 11/04/2015 14:17

Far easier for people to blame it on the government than admit they made bad choices or admit they don't want to work/work much.

So people working 16hrs get slated now as well for being lazy, my jobs very hard, think physically demanding, back breaking work for min wage finishing at 1am and getting in at 2am then up with the kids at 7 as well as housework etc. People do want to work, the way the system is set up by the government says work is geared towards people working part time, who's faults that?

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