To think some people have their heads in the sand about poverty in the UK?

[MrsFlannel]

On here we see a lot about "Don't have children you can't afford" etc.

this article in the Guardian really brings home the effects of poverty today and it's really breaking my heart.

By rights I should be among those who are struggling so badly...and in one way we are...but because I managed to get a degree and get my DC into a school which is good despite living in a very poor area, we're not quite in the trouble many people around us are.

We live in a council estate...all around me is quite terrible poverty. The upsetting thing is that whilst DH and I have decent work...it's not enough to be able to donate to food banks etc....we only scrape by. I'm sick of the people who deny that there's a problem...or shove blame onto "feckless parents"

Children without internet access are considered to be at a disadvantage too Wootle

will have to be quick as im on my way out but dont wanna read and run

good ????

i hate the idea of food vouchers so i wouldnt implement them even though some think we should,i really believe in parents taking more responsibility for their kids (im talking feckless parent) not most of us

i have no idea really as more money to a feckless family is not going to solve it,the children always suffer,they will not benefit,without taking the children of them (dont think that does anybody anygood) its not going to change

i think they state should bring back a system that if white goods/beds etc need replacing then they can provide,say a deal with Argos for example but you pay back weekly interest free,and not just for te unemployed low payed workers as well,and say Argos would be paid by the DWP direct

sorry its so disjointed

exscuse my post as im rushing,will check in later

Thank you, all those saying so much better the things I've been trying to say in response to these frankly idiotic posts.

oh and bomb Brighthouse stores

Ilove

Do you vote UKIP?

But you cannot beat relative poverty. It is an unwinnable battle.

As far as real poverty goes, I am sure it exists, but not very much. And where it does exists people need actual help and support and to help themselves. I think benefits are the cause of this poverty and will never be the solution. If you told me that 10% of the population is living off £1 a day that is real and something that can be changed.

And what is essential is not defined by your neighbours.. Thats keeping up with the Joneses... A very first world issue and a very stupid game that people with no money should not be playing. Essentials are what you need to survive.

Brighthouse should be shut. I agree with that. I've just watched my neighbour sign up for a table and chairs...at a cost of over 300 quid...it's worth about 50 tops.

I showed her what I do...buy second hand, good quality vintage things and paint them or sand them and she was amazed....she's doing that now for her DDs room...she's chosen a lovely old wardrobe and dressing table at the local charity shop furniture centre and they're delivering them.

Too late for her dining set though. 300 quid! It'll be battered by the time she's finished paying.

JaWell before the advent of benefits do you imagine there was no poverty? OF COURSE benefits aren't the bloody cause of poverty!!

So are parents feckless just because they live in low income households?

Are all low earners who have kids feckless or is feckless defined by something else

Sorry badly worded.

Long term benefits will not stop poverty. People need proper assistance and help. Throwing money at problems solves nothing. Amd makes them reliant on the mo ey

Give a man a fish or teach him to fish...

And what is essential is not defined by your neighbours.. Thats keeping up with the Joneses... A very first world issue and a very stupid game that people with no money should not be playing. Essentials are what you need to survive

That's not what I meant. If your access to money is dependant on also having internet access then that becomes an essential.

If your access to health care is dependant on transport then that transport becomes essential.

JaPeople DO need benefits if they are sick or out of work. What do you imagine people will EAT with no benefits? Where will they live whilst you're teaching them to bloody fish!?

I like Theoreticians post. Why are we so set on helping the UK poor? Even the poorest people in th UK have access to the NHS and free healthcare. So let's tax the poor a bit more, or cut funding to th NHS, spread the money out and send it to Africa.

Because to the people of some parts of Africa the UK poor must seem like the richest kings. And we can't have that can we. Not very good socialism.

It's ridiculous to say that if you have certain amenities or possessions like a mobile or a washing machine that you cannot be poor in the UK.

Truly ignorant.

In countries where communities of people don't have these things there are measures in place enabling the community to tick along. In Russia old women grow veg in allotments and sell it cheap in the towns. There is a culture of pickling and preserving. Women help each other out in groups. In India groups of housewives batch cook together in one house for their family then move to somebody else's house the next day. It's a social event and costs nothing. In fact it saves money. Developing (poor) countries have the most amazing public transport systems that cost hardly anything at all, even for the local people. In Russia, you offer a symbolic amount and I've even seen bus conductors waive the fare if it's a mother with a lot of children. I saw this many times in fact. In other words, you can live quite well in what those in developed countries would consider poverty. You can also live poorly in a rich country.

Some people on this thread are embarrassing themselves.

It's not about keeping up with the joneses. It's about disadvantage caused by poverty.

An example being Internet access. A luxury I hear you say.

If you are job seeking you are expected to use the Internet daily to search and record your search. Yes there are libraries etc. but you can usually only use those pcs for a limited time then you have to leave. If you have never had a pc and Internet access at home, you can be painfully slow navigating sites. So you get sanctioned.

That's presuming you live within walking distance of accessible pcs.

My oldest daughters studying for exams. Loads of the revision sites school use are online. And also need things printed out (past papers). Which requires Internet access, paper, ink and a printer.

Yes you can buy past papers. For about £10 in wh smiths. Or halfish of that on amazon. So again, you are disadvantaged by not having internet access.

That's just two tiny examples. I'm getting really fucked off lately at the sheer and utter stupidity of some posters on MN. I've always maintained there are no stupid people, but I am seriously starting to doubt myself.

Oh and for viviennemary and anyone else worried about food bank bureaucracy, I don't sign vouchers any more as I prefer my staff who know clients directly to refer them, but when I did only one person I referred was out of work, others had issues with late wages, drops in hours, etc. they honestly bend over backwards to try to help; they do have checks in place to ensure they aren't misused though, which is why they say they limit the number of times you can go, but if you have a professional saying you are working with them to deal with the situation but need help for a bit longer, they will help, and our local one has made it clear they will never turn anyone in need away.

I am in a small flat, 5 people. We dry our clothes on a heated rail. You can easily get it done in one night

Remind me bonnie - what does your heated rail run off again?

Id quite happily lead the campaign to bomb bright house.

Electric but it costs 5p an hour. You can time it off the electric meter and it says on the box

In our circle my DC are disadvantaged because I can't afford tutors...or horse riding lessons...and I've no printer to allow them to do swishy looking homework...but we DO have the basics...phones, days out...new clothes....so it's not real disadvantage...I have the savvy to glean info and printers elsewhere for them...to collect coupons for days out...I also have the ENERGY to do that because I'm not living on a diet of Iceland chips and mince.

Others aren't as lucky.

Malice I thankful mumsnet posters are real people and that the Tories will not win every seat.

Fuck this, I'm going to the pub.

'I keep hearing about education being a solution, (teach first, teach USA etc) but really all this means is more educated people going for the same work.(which doesn't need much beyond basic math and English, the rest of the work is learnt on site). I don't have a solution, but spend on Education, ie doing the same thing as everyone else doesn't seem to work. Lets be honest and tell Students they need to find their own way, ignore school. ( again, having achieved basic math and English )'

What's needed is the job creation to go with education. Real industry. Real jobs, not temp, unpaid, agency, zero hours, umbrella company.

Tips for if you are in tiny place, lots of peopl is get a heated rail and use it as heater/clothes dryer. They are very energy efficient. We had the whole green moss growing inside, black all up the walls for years, but I got hold off an industrial dehumidifier it was 80 quid, which is a lot but best I have ever spent, and worth getting loan/selling stuff for it, and it is good for the kids. We have had ours years now, really good.

we dont have a printer and i have two doing final exams this June,i dont feel poor because i have no printer,they can print at school or the fantastic local library 15 mins walk

also within my circle no one has ever mentioned or employed tutors,im living in poverty and dont even realise it

op agree ive always had lots of things second hand from washing machines to clothes,mind you when the British heart foundation are asking £110 for a second hand washing machine i dont blame people for buying new atleast they get a 1yrs guarantee and and it was £170 approx

we have a Brighthouse in the local shopping centre,i have never been in but every time i pass i feel like shouting at the customers what a total rip of they are getting themselves into