To Wonder Why Tory Voters Support a £13bn cut in benefits (inc tax credits) when hardly any tory voters even receive these benefits?

[Amylovesgalaxyeggs]

Tory voters statistically earn more and live in constituencies that have higher property values.

Tory voters statistically would be less likely to rely on tax credits or other benefits that will be cut by the party.

Aibu to wonder why a group of voters would vote for a party that wants to cut something that they don't claim. Sounds like a of reverse Robin Hood to me.

They both backed down. Kennedy withdrew his missiles from Turkey.

Threads was terrifying. When the wind blows was terrifying. Greenham, CND.

Th threat was very real indeed.

Didn't mean to come in with the insults. Ad hominem attacks are not usually my style.

I'll state again, the deficit is not really that big an issue, its been bigger in the past and will be bigger in the future. State funds are not like those of a household, it operates differently.

Also to those discussing the deficit and debt, do you think that if we run a surplus ( as we last did in 2000-2002, when BROWN was Chancellor) that it is moral to have money in the bank while people starve and suffer? Also historically we have had much larger debts as a percentage of GDP all through the 50s, 60s and 70s. The Debt now was taken on to bail out the banks and for the fiscal stimulus that the economy needed in order to stop us crashing completely. For those of you talking of the economic incompetence of the Labour govt, you do realise that the rest of the world followed Brown and Darling's plans for how to react to the crisis don't you?

The deficit is actually being used as a reason to drive idealogical change, and the financial crash has been the shock that means that people are more likely to accept cuts and changes than they have done previously. It is a smoke screen, a cover.

The same with the benefit cuts, they cut child benefit to the HRTs this then means the precedent is set and people are less likely to complain on mass ( and yes I complained about HRT losing it). Its a divide and rule tactic. Same as making it clear that benefits will be cut, they keep you looking at the poor and saying what they have got so you don't look at all the wealth being amassed by the elite. How is it that directors salaries have risen dramatically since the crash yet everyone else has to tighten their belts?

The Tories want to break up the public services, sell those that are viable to big business who will make profits from tax payers money. They want lower wealth and business taxes because that suits them and they will see the benefit. Cameron said in his speech to the Guildhall that austerity would be permanent. He said that and then sat down to a sumptuous meal on a fecking golden throne, that's how austere he is really. Austerity for you, largesse for the elite.

If you are not part of the elite they are not doing anything for you, your services will be cut. The NHS, education, prisons, anything that can be sold will be. Services will get worse, believe me. Say goodbye to meritocracy cause the role of the state as the great leveller of advantages will end.

All the things someone above said about Labour are the tories key propaganda. Please do some research, read something other than right wing papers ( they have a pro tory agenda cause it suits their owners)

" Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed.”

? Herman Melville

I am afraid there is very little between the 3 main parties. None are really after deep cuts and a much smaller state and lower taxes sadly.Those of us with those views are utterly unrepresented in british politics today.

Longtime. Your post about the govt wanting to divide and rule is rehashed over and over onMN. Do you really think that is their focus? That there is some 'divide and rule' impressario behind he scenes plotting?

In first past the post politics you have to divide and rule. It's the maths required to form a government that does that for you. How you appeal to a broad base beyond your core vote is up to you.

I genuinely think that there is an ulterior agenda. Making cuts to things like child benefit is negligible and doesn't really cut down spending. But what it does do is get people focused on who gets what and why. Stops people looking at other issues.

Possibly, but which voters are able to make sense of private contracts within the NHS, private companies running NHS hospitals, the validity of HS2, or the likely overrun costs. The strategic case for Trident's replacement. Whether or not politicians commonly use their influence to get non exec positions with companies and what should be done about it, if they do. How to make the Houses of Parliament more reflective of the population as a whole. Whether or not the egalitarian education debate should include the abolition of private education (which it currently does not). And so on, and so on.

It's much easier to talk about Miliband eating a burger and benefit cheats. I think the dire level of political debate in this country is only partly cynically created. The other part is real. It's that bad for a reason!

Longtime. I think with your 'Conspiracy Theories' you belong with 'Alex Jones' on Prison Planet .COM.

If the Conservatives, really only governed for the benefit of about 200000 people and offererd 'nothing to anybody else' how would they possibly get 35% of the popular vote !.

However, the Conservatives and other western Right wing learning Governments have belived in Friedrick Hayek's 'Laissez Faire' approach to economics. This means a belief in 'limited' state involement in society and that people will become more self sufficent if the Government does not institute a 'nanny' state or a Cradle to the Grave Welfare state.

The truth is away from this site which is mostly ( Teachers, Social workers Medics or other educated Public sector workers) . The majority of well paid or 'commercally' educated people do not vote Labour, nor do many people earning average or slighty above wages.

smokepole:

I'm really not a conspiracy theorist at all. In the past Conservative Governments have not been as far to the right as this one, even Mrs T never dared threaten the NHS. And the thing about using the deficit as a smoke screen? I'd invite you to look at a host of economic tracts that say that external/internal shocks are often used by governments in order to implement Friedman style economic policies.

I genuinely think the debate focuses around issues such as this because that is what the media gurus pushing this election along want. Frame the debate, keep on message etc etc.

Also lots of people vote Labour dear, they won 3 elections outright something that the Conservatives didn't even manage to do last time and are worried about not winning this time. Lots of people in business vote Labour because they realise that when everyone benefits from the society we live in then business benefits.

I really hope I'm not coming across as a nutter.

For my part, I believe that the Iraq War, the loss of Tony Blair's popularity, Gordon Brown's unpopularity and his demonisation in the media, the financial collapse, the political expenses scandal and so on, had far more to do with the numerically confused outcome of the last election than the niceties of economic theories did. Most people don't know enough about laissez faire economic theories to have a favourite one.

But even with the Iraq war, Blair and Brown being unpopular, the crash etc. The Tories still couldn't win.

Its also interesting that when you look at the impact of the cuts they have been heavier and faster in Labour voting areas. The changes to the way Council Tax is administrated have also meant that wealthier areas now keep more of their money to spend, so they are less likely to have to close libraries, swimming pools etc cause they have more cash.

No long I don't think you are coming across as a nutter at all. The media give the politicians' agendas. There is little open debate and you have to go looking for information. The influence on election results tracking the 'opinion' of The Sun for example. The main news sources are supposed to be unbiased so they are limited in what they can do.
We all remember the 'Good day to bury bad news' line.
And yes the public at large are easily distracted by baubles and 'one pence off a pint'. It works to paint a broad brush outline of society - don't get bogged down in detail. Hard workers? Well everyone who works thinks they work hard. Tax payer? Oh yes! Well then if we tell you we're on your side you might believe us. We'll pretend we're talking to you personally.

Longtime you may be right that cutting cb doesn't make a huge impact overall and creates a curtain twitching behaviour in the electorate. But some would suggest that many voters only care about those policies that directly impact them so are less aware or concerned by the 'other, real issues' that you think the give is distracting them from.

Govt not give

longtimelurker,

I also share your theory, it's amazing what a government can change or put forward without us knowing and for the intelligent who might smell a rat they encourage focus elsewhere.
I'm surprised everybody can't see this.

I think they should repeat Yes Minister

Dora, the Soviets had withdrawn completely by the beginning of December 1962. US Jupiter missiles were not removed from Turkey until April 1963.

Ponio, Threads and Where the wind blows were not fact, they were fiction. Yes, they were frightening, but they were fiction. The only thing wrong with Greenham Common was having nuclear weapons there.

I have a 'Conspiracy Theory' Greenham Common was a Decoy site !No Nuclear weapons suitated there. RAF Bentwaters (probable) Nuclear Site why they were (spooked By UFO Sightings) . How about Nuclear Warheads Stationed at Burtonwood Two reasons 'Jodrell Bank was built by American Money ( Cover as a site for Searching Space) when really it was a Early Warning Radar station. There are also supposed to be filled in Tunnels from Burtonwood - Liverpool Which would require the President of the USA to give authority to excavate.

We are all capable of Conspiracy theories. RAF Burtonwood in Warrington was the biggest US Air base in Europe , with the longest runway so it would make sense in that way as well.

I think they should repeat Yes Minister

I agree, morethan

dawndonnaagain The removal of the US missiles from Turkey was part of the deal for Russian missiles from Cuba. The exact timing is irrelevant.

longtime You have to run a surplus sometimes to repay the debt? Brown never had cash in the bank, he ran a surplus in the first term as he promised to follow Conservative spending plans in order to get elected in 1997. As soon as he was allowed, he significantly increased spending, despite a booming economy and ever growing house prices, whilst being "intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich".

Democracy's Achilles heel is, well, ... democracy. That's one reason why autocrats (and supposed meritocrats) dislike it so much, and have such undemocratic structures as the European Parliament and the United Nations (not to mention the Bretton Woods structures)

In a democracy, it's the side which tells the best popular story which wins, not the one which talks economic or political sense. Overall, there is no better political system, only democratic versions. But, Britain's FPP representative democracy is one of its most corruptible forms.

Carol. It's all about having a dig at me. The deal was sorted by Khrushchev, not by Kennedy. That's the point. I'm a fucking retired history lecturer.

I agree that the level of political debate in this country is dire. For example, many people on mumsnet still refuse to accept that the disabled have experienced major negative cuts, in spite of many disabled people on here explaining about how these cuts affect them.