To ask if you are voting SNP?

[SpiceAddict]

How do you think they are going to 'end austerity'? How will this be financed? You can't just suddenly invest more in infrastructure etc to create more jobs if there is no.money.

If it is going to be financed by stopping trident, then we will lose US support - not really a good idea....

Labour are going to increase tax for higher payers, mansion tax etc in order to fund their investments.

I live in Yorkshire and we really don't get the support for SNP. They don't make sense to me, but as they seem to be so popular, please can someone actually why?

I'm sensitive to any accusations of corruption/cover-ups involving the SNP too despite not living in Edinburgh. As Chandler says, the SNP appeal to some of their voters as being fairer and more accountable than the Westminster parties. Their indy mantra was "a fairer and more just" society. There is no evidence that they are any more honest and democratic than the main Westminster parties. Not only that, I get the impression that they are at least as bad - for the reasons cited (the Donald Trump affair, silently arming the police force, Edinburgh city council, the legal guardian law, Alec Salmond quoting projected oil revenue turnover as income in a tv debate). Some of the snp and more worryingly, yes voters were anti-Westminster votes - talk about out of the frying pan.

Alec Salmond comes across as bullying. NS seems to have got her training from him - though she is much better for not interrupting.

IIRC, the SNP originally took votes from the conservatives btw.

I find their insistence that Scottish people are canny, outward-looking, broad-minded and all the rest, embarrassing. Are they saying that Scottish people (or 'scots') as they say, morally superior to the rest of the UK?! Nice. It's more subtle than bringing up the historical injustices perpetuated by Westminster, but its aim is the same I'll wager. Chip on the shoulder? Not a good reason to found a party and break up a settled country - I mean UK btw!

Not sure what you mean about changes to property laws as Scotland still mostly freehold as opposed to leasehold in England.
Agree with you re state guardians.

Btw, my DS is sick of studying Scottish history - Scotland is a tiny country! Scottish literature at the expense of Shakespeare too! Poor English teachers in Scotland have a hugely reduced choice of texts now, thanks to the SNP. Even the Scottish equivalent of GCSE's are called 'National 5s'. Scotland hasn't used different exam boards in the way that England has - calling them 'national' is needless. Of course they're 'national' exams!

howabout, there was an article int he FT about the property law changes about a year ago. From memory it was things like a group of locals can get together to force a sale. Secondly insetad even if no locals are interested the council off its own bat can go to a private land owner and force some kind of sale.

Thirdly masses of rights to roam over private land.
Fourthly at the time - much higher stamp duties (although the UK now has 12% stamp duty on upper end bit of high prices properties so massively higher property taxes in the UK under the Coalition sadly for some).

Never mind the traditional crofter rights too.

I note my kids do focus on Medieval Scottish history (and have never touched on the Enlightenment which I find inexplicable!)

Bakewell - I share your frustration.

However... back to OP's question - have any of the SNP voters on this thread managed to explain how the SNP will end austerity? How it will be financed?

Think the land reform only affects you if you own a small island / massive highland estate tbh. I think there are provisions for farmers? The changes to stamp duty are slightly more progressive than rest of UK but our house prices are for average people considerably lower so would not make me move back to London.

On education I do not like narrowing towards Scottish curriculum but my DCs (SS 1 and 2) are studying Burns and Shakespeare and same obsession with WW1 and 2 as when I was at school so no great change! Would not trade 5 highers for 3 A levels or whatever everything is called these days.

Do you not just think the "Scottish political accent" is just folk slowing down their speech a bit to be easier understood by those not from their area.

I have a strong Fife accent, use a lot of words etc unique to Fife but when I have lived abroad I have to slow my speech & speak clearly so I can be properly understood. This is just normal.

I think there is a lot of variation in the accents of Scots politicians.
In fact I have seen on many occasions press etc slagging politicians for speaking with an accent from where they are from, snobby stuff re being working class.

Hmmmm ending austerity, don't replace Trident would help. Billions saved there..

I agree with the points about the Curriculum - it is insidious...slightly creepy.
Part of the enforced curriculum timetable is 'Social studies' - combined geography, history and the like.
Information here www.educationscotland.gov.uk/Images/social_studies_experiences_outcomes_tcm4-539891.pdf

The first line of the experiences and outcomes is
develop my understanding of the history, heritage and culture of Scotland, and an appreciation of my local and national heritage within the world

From Science
I have collaborated with others to find and present information on how scientists from Scotland and beyond have contributed to innovative research and development.

and more of the same...

I am all for people knowing about and not losing their heritage - keeping traditions alive, learning about things like Scottish dialect, being proud of their country etc...
But on the other hand it seems at odds with a country that would need mass immigration to survive as an independent nation.
I wonder how children with English as a second language get on with primary homework that involves writing down a traditional Scottish word and its meaning. (eg Bairn) and poems full of Scottish dialect...seems exclusive.

Think if English is a second language then studying Scots levels the playing field for many as hardly any Scots I know truly speak and understand it. I can see what you are saying about a focus on Scottishness being inward looking but in my experience it is done within the context of an outward looking perspective. For instance difficult to discuss the influence of colonial powers in Africa without talking about the tobacco Lords. In economics why would you not discuss Adam Smith or New Lanark and there are numerous examples in science and literature. Sometimes if these things are not spelled out it is "easier" to use generalised homogenised resources.

Not setting myself up as an expert on language or anything, but it does interest me...

FannyFifer Do you not just think the "Scottish political accent" is just folk slowing down their speech a bit to be easier understood by those not from their area

I know the type of slowed down, very over-enunciated speech you mean and I actually can't stand it. No, I mean a lot of the political class in Scotland seem to be use an incredible amount of glottal stops, but surprisingly combined with not really traditional Scots pronunciation. Maybe its that combination that strikes me as a bit fake, I don't know. Its like they over-emphasise the Scottishness by glottal-stopping to death ("Sco-unt" - seriously?). And of course, the further north you go, the more Norse it becomes and they don't use glottal stops.

I would love to hear the genuine Scots language (or whats left of it) used more in Scottish politics, and perhaps we will see that one day. I do think its a different language, how many words in Scots would you actually pronounce differently? More than half? If only it got as much attention and funding than Gaelic.

ending austerity, don't replace Trident would help. Billions saved there

Is that the answer to OP's question of how the SNP propose to end austerity and how to fund it?

In the short term, moving (or scrapping) trident would save nothing. According to one report I read it would save between £1 and £2 billion until approx. 2062. So not exactly a massive saving.

Admit it SNP you'd have to increase borrowing - perhaps that's justifiable, perhaps it isn't; either way I never hear the SNP admit to the need for greater borrowing. Having greater control over our revenue (their other answer to how the better welfare state and public services would be funded) doesn't necessarily equal improved efficiency or savings. It could have the opposite effect! Either the SNP doesn't know how it would fund all the things it would like to fund, or it won't say. I know other parties aren't exactly forthcoming about their costings either - but the SNP claims to be different from the other parties; more transparent, more accountable.... As far as I can see, they're exactly like the other main parties.

I see what you mean about getting away from generalised homogenised sources of educational examples. But I get the impression that the secondary school teachers would prefer to have more freedom to use the examples they think suit their subjects. Also, there's a limit to how outward looking you can be if you spend a lot of time doing Scottish history/literature/economics albeit within a wider framework - it goes without saying that Scottish history is also part of the history of other countries, for example but to spend a third of the higher syllabus on Scottish history seems to be excessive IMO - it decreases the amount of time available to study the history of other countries or trends like the unification of the European nations in the 19th century for example.

Or did DS say that 19th c unification is on the higher syllabus? - Scottish history, the suffragettes and one other subject were what he mentioned. My point remains though.

"to spend a third of the higher syllabus on Scottish history seems to be excessive IMO"

English (technically British, but most of the topics are in fact English) history topics are half of both the GCSE and A level history topics.

There were schools who didn't cover Scottish history at all, which is why I meet adults who think that Braveheart is fact...

I do understand your point but just not sure the SNP has really made much difference to the Scottishness of the curriculum. I was educated 30 years ago and was never taught about Oliver Cromwell or any English monarch. Not at highers in our house yet but when I did higher history there was a choice of subjects and it was more about the process of investigating history than the facts themselves. I also think the current emphasis on maths and science together with the smaller number of A levels taken means to all our detriment fewer English children are studying any sort of arts in any depth.

The SNP has imposed compulsory study of a Scottish text in English literature, reducing the number of other texts studied. (as far as I understand)

My understanding of the English national curriculum and the (Scottish) curriculum for excellence is that they were introduced in a bid to avoid topics being studied more than once accidentally and have other important topics missed out as a result.

Certainly I learnt about viking invasions, (not much about the Gaels and the Scots - I'm in north of scotland) Robert the Bruce, William Wallace, the Covenanters, the clearances, Bonnie Prince Charlie, the act of the union, New Lanark, tobacco barons, not much about the picts,) Mary queen of scots, whaling and migration to Canada and America, the crownings at Scone, Dunfermline and the subsequent rise of Edinburgh; its role in the enlightenment, migration to the cities after the clearances, the fishing industry on the east coast and its demise......

But we didn't have to recite crappy Scottish poems 'for' Burns Day or think we should have a day off on St Andrew's day (wasn't he greek anyway) and we studied some Burns, George Mackay Brown and IIRC once Liz Lochhead visited our school, but we didn't study these instead of Shakespeare.

In England (albeit Northumbria) we did a huge amount of Scottish history at school by the way in both primary, secondary, O level as it then was and A level. in fact I remember thinking there was probably more of it than was probably warranted but it was still very interesting.

(Yes on my Scottish law land rights point it does indeed affect those buying land etc and property in the countryside which is where I might have bought had they not changed the laws).

Am I voting SNP? What do you think?

chocoluvva - in my complete time at high school, I studied 3 Shakespeare plays and not a single Scottish text, I would have quite gladly swapped Macbeth for one.

My DP knows nothing about Scottish history at all, well nothing I haven't told him as his school just didn't cover any.

When I did Higher English many years ago we had to do a Scottish text. We did Greenvoe. My teacher was on the panel that sets the questions and the only bit we DIDN'T study was the bit in the exam ...

Oh, I meant I studied 3 Shakespeare plays amongst other things obviously - I did make it sound like I only did Shakespeare, lol.

I done Roddy Doyle, Sylvia Plath, Shakespeare and Heaney for higher English 15 years ago.

There was no dictate to do a Scottish writer at all then.

Although my English teacher was a neighbour of Rowling and very, very bitter!

Lewis Grassic Gibbon! Knew I'd remember sooner or later - Sunset Song. Wallows in nostalgia.

Higher history involves for DS Scottish wars of independence, the suffragette movement and newly unified Germany. He claims he's 'done' William Wallace twice and is fed up of hearing about "Scottish guys running aboot the heather and eating porridge." He has "done the Scottish wars of independence twice" apparently, but never studied the roman empire!

I don't know - I'm glad I'm not a teacher anyway. I don't know how this compares with the English ed system either - they seem to be returning to the 'three R's'!

Greenvoe - lovely.

The reason there's currently a lot of repetition or tokenistic shoving in of Scottish topics (like burn's day poetry instead of properly studying him) is because of the way CfE was launched...it wasn't ready and was rushed through by the Scottish government anyway.

The NAT 5 course for English had started being taught in schools before the person who was producing the assessments had taken up their post (I don't know when that happened in other subjects).

Secondary teachers were bulldozed into it before it was actually ready to go.

So I'll happily criticise the vagueness of the outcomes, the way it was implemented and many other things, but not that it's written into it that history should include Scottish history or that literature should include Scottish texts...other countries routinely do study their own history and literature, some almost exclusively in fact, so I don't think that's wrong to include it.