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AIBU?

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Original poster

Priority admissions to grammar for free school meals

999 replies

polycomfort · 02/04/2015 14:58

I'm pretty much not a person to start hand-wringing over low income families getting breaks. Happy for people less fortunate to get the odd leg up. Fine.

But I'm really angry to have just read that the local grammar school has just started giving priority admission to children claiming free school meals. I understand they get an extra £900 per child so I get that there is probably a financial benefit for the schools themselves. But I've been practicing with my daughter every evening (can't afford a tutor) using books I've bought cheap on Amazon and was thinking she might be just about good to go after lots of effort from both of us and now I'm just thinking what's the point? There are 20 applications per space as it is, and now just because I'm not poor she has even less of a chance. We don't have a high income but I work full time and so she doesn't get free school meals. For my efforts I may end up having to send my really rather bright daughter to the crappy (and it is crap) local comp even though she may be brighter than a child whose parent doesn't bust a gut to work every day of the week.

I don't think it's okay for grammar schools to be crammed full of wealthy kids who could go to private school, but couldn't they do a household income cut off rather than using a free school meal as the criteria? Then all the kids who can't afford to go to private school could be assessed for grammar school. I don't see why kids from the middle income should be penalised.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 05/04/2015 22:15

I don't get this "one size fits all" thing. What do people mean? The top set of a comprehensive is a very different place academically to the 3rd or 5th. Not one size at all.

LynetteScavo · 05/04/2015 22:17

The answer is to have a test which can't be tutored for.

Or just have decent comprehensives and abolish grammar sch

PtolemysNeedle · 05/04/2015 22:24

There's more to school than just lessons Hak.

Hakluyt · 05/04/2015 22:29

"There's more to school than just lessons Hak"

Say more?

tiggytape · 05/04/2015 22:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PtolemysNeedle · 05/04/2015 22:32

Ok, what do you want to hear?

Surely you already know that school children don't spend every minute of their school day in the minority of lessons they are set for?

Hakluyt · 05/04/2015 22:53

"Ok, what do you want to hear?

Surely you already know that school children don't spend every minute of their school day in the minority of lessons they are set for?"

Most comprehensives set for more than "a minority" of lessons. Who is it you don't want then to be mixing with?

PtolemysNeedle · 05/04/2015 22:56

Oh FFS Hmm

Don't want who to be mixing with? Are you referring to my children? If so, which one?

GoldenBeagle · 05/04/2015 22:56

a minority of subjects?
All subjects except PE. are set in DC's comp. some groups of subjects are streamed (tutor groups are streamed and they do a group of subjects in that general stream, then English, maths, science and languages are set within and across steams. A 3rd stream student who is talented / keen on MFLs, for example, can step out of the 3rd stram 'norm' and do more than one MFL. )

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 05/04/2015 22:57

But what is the issue with the minutes in the day when they're not in their top sets?

PtolemysNeedle · 05/04/2015 22:58

And do comprehensives really routinely set for more than three or four subjects? Our doesn't.

Hakluyt · 05/04/2015 22:59

So what will happen outside lessons in a comprehnsive school that you don't want your grammar school child to do?

PtolemysNeedle · 05/04/2015 23:00

That's interesting beagle, I didn't know that. Ours only sets for maths, English, science and languages.

PtolemysNeedle · 05/04/2015 23:02

Nothing Hak, but the two schools we use do do things a little differently. Nothing wrong with either.

I don't really want to go into extensive comparisons between the two schools on a public forum.

Hakluyt · 05/04/2015 23:07

"I don't really want to go into extensive comparisons between the two schools on a public forum."

Why on earth not? You can't go on about one size not fitting all without expanding a bit. Otherwise people can't help drawing conclusions which may be erroneous.

Hakluyt · 05/04/2015 23:11

My ds's secondary modern set for everything from Christmas in year 8 except BTecs, by the way. Including PE. And for most things from Christmas in year 7.

Superexcited · 05/04/2015 23:18

SN can't be catered for unless money is spent on their needs- it can't be done as a cheap option.

It isn't a cheap option. My child's specialist education costs the LEA around £40k per annum. It still wouldn't be appropriate for them to spend that £40k each year on a placement in a mainstream setting. My child wouldn't be able to cope. They could increase the spending to £100k per annum and they still wouldn't meet his needs and ensure that he is in a fit state for learning in a school where kids of all abilities attend. Only somebody with knowledge of significant SN would understand.

PtolemysNeedle · 05/04/2015 23:32

I didn't go on about it, and I am not responsible for other people making erroneous conclusions.

Mehitabel6 · 06/04/2015 07:22

So, to get this right - the worry is that although they would be set for lessons they might actually have to mix with all abilities at break times? In what way is this a bad thing?Confused
If a mainstream school can't cope with SN I can't see how they fit into a grammar, a comprehensive or a secondary modern- it is a whole separate debate.

LePetitMarseillais · 06/04/2015 07:34

Oh for goodness sake leave her alone.

Are we as parents not allowed to have any choice in the scools our dc go to?

Grill the hundreds of thousands of parents who shun perfectly ok schools for the best comps and primaries up and down the country as to why they make their choices.

Schools differ,kids differ,needs differ...... and parents make their choices accordingly.Live with it.

Mehitabel6 · 06/04/2015 07:50

According to government statistics approx 163,000 children attend a grammar school. As many parents have more than one child there far fewer than that have it as a choice. It isn't exactly a choice anyway as many parents know perfectly well that their child is suited to a grammar school but they fail the selection test.
I don't want to live with a system where children are divided at 11yrs - and I shall fight it at every opportunity.
Luckily they will never return- they are a vote loser as 75% of parents would be against. It has already been made clear that grammar schools have far too few pupils on FSM and something is being done about it.

Mehitabel6 · 06/04/2015 07:52

There is no way I shall live with it. I shall fight it at every opportunity- it is one thing that would make me active politically - a good education for all.

LePetitMarseillais · 06/04/2015 08:07

Being bitter and twisted over a teeny tiny number of pupils going to a choice of school you don't like whilst vastly bigger numbers of children are shafted at 5 and 11 when left with the schools nobody wants simply because their parents can't afford to rent or buy in the better catchments is laughable.

But hey you carry on with your crusade over the big issue.

< whispers>Hate to break it to you but many of that teeny tiny number of kids not going to grammar that wanted to will be going to vastly superior schools than many,many other kids up and down the country.

Mehitabel6 · 06/04/2015 08:17

I want all children to go to these vastly superior schools which don't close the doors of opportunity.
Rest assured I shall carry on with my 'crusade'.

LePetitMarseillais · 06/04/2015 08:20

Great you do that,I think you'll find that the rest of the population have far bigger and worthier things to worry about though.