Priority admissions to grammar for free school meals

[polycomfort]

I'm pretty much not a person to start hand-wringing over low income families getting breaks. Happy for people less fortunate to get the odd leg up. Fine.

But I'm really angry to have just read that the local grammar school has just started giving priority admission to children claiming free school meals. I understand they get an extra £900 per child so I get that there is probably a financial benefit for the schools themselves. But I've been practicing with my daughter every evening (can't afford a tutor) using books I've bought cheap on Amazon and was thinking she might be just about good to go after lots of effort from both of us and now I'm just thinking what's the point? There are 20 applications per space as it is, and now just because I'm not poor she has even less of a chance. We don't have a high income but I work full time and so she doesn't get free school meals. For my efforts I may end up having to send my really rather bright daughter to the crappy (and it is crap) local comp even though she may be brighter than a child whose parent doesn't bust a gut to work every day of the week.

I don't think it's okay for grammar schools to be crammed full of wealthy kids who could go to private school, but couldn't they do a household income cut off rather than using a free school meal as the criteria? Then all the kids who can't afford to go to private school could be assessed for grammar school. I don't see why kids from the middle income should be penalised.

Why is his southern accent going to be a problem though Miele? Why are there fewer northern accents at the grammar school?

I think the accents at Miele's grammar school , will be 'nondescript' Northern Middle Class somewhere from Cheshire accents, as opposed to Oldham Burnley Salford or Birkenhead type ones. In any of those areas anyone with a Southern accent ( South of 'Stoke' would be liable to bullying and standing out like a sore thumb.

'En Oldham Ther's Pie shoope's ere ove T' Place.

Translated : In Oldham there are pie shops all over the place.

Just wondering why there will be more Southern accents at the grammar school?

I find it extraordinary that people seem to expect bullying and think it would be acceptable at any school, regardless of sector.

There will be bullying at all schools- it is how it is dealt with that is important - I wouldn't send mine to any school where bullying is not going to be dealt with and stopped.
My friend's DS had his nose broken at grammar school by other grammar school boys because they didn't like him. I find it odd that people somehow think this doesn't happen at grammar school.

To be fair, it was you that mentioned accents! And I was genuinely curious about why you thought his accent would stick out less in a grammar school. My ds has the poshest accent in his school (they rated them in a trip once) and he most certainly would stick out less in a grammar school. But I thought that was the sort of thing grammar school supporters would deny with their dying breath.. Because it sort of suggests that selective education is socially divisive..........

Hakulyt. Bullying is not acceptable under any circumstances. However, it is inevitable that it will happen to a pupil who is different . The other problem for children with High Functioning Autism' is they are likely to 'ignore' the bullying and then 'suddenly' explode when the bullying becomes to much.

The bullies know when and where to 'push' the final button 'Usually' in a classroom or lesson resulting in the Autistic child lashing out after 2 hours or so of bullying. The autistic child ends up getting put in isolation, the bullies continue on unpunished 'saying' said child is a 'freak' ETC. The teachers are totally unaware of bullying, that anybody would snap after 'day after day' of the vicous comments and 'piss taking'.

"However, it is inevitable that it will happen to a pupil who is different "

No, it is not inevitable. I have taught, and know, a variety of children who are 'different' - and for some years my DS was thought to have ASD as he shows many of the symptoms when stressed.

In a school with a strong anti-bullying stance, children are NOT bullied just for being different - and teachers are not 'otally unaware' of it. In a school that is less strong on anti-bullying - yes, bullying happens more often (it happens in all schools, but the extent can be very, very different, for the same child). DS moved from a small cosy village school, in which he was mercilessly bullied both physically and verbally, to one where there was never any hint of it. Both state primaries - now at a state comp, not dissimilar in terms of intake etc (he was very 'different' in both), but totally different attitude towards bullies and bullying.

"However, it is inevitable that it will happen to a pupil who is different "
No it bloody isn't!

And you know something else? In my experience it's the lower ability children who get bullied. Nobody appears to be suggesting educating the "bottom" 23% in a separate school because their "difference" makes them vulnerable to bullying. No, of course not. They are the wrong side of the bell curve... ....

Being different - in any way - may make it more likely that bullying may start, in any school. The type of difference that is 'noticed' can be very highly unpredictable, within as well as between schools. Whether it continues, its severity etc, will depend on the strength of management in a school.

What is ISN'T is 'inevitable'.

Ohh dear - my DD top of class was bullied. - why because they could - teachers turned blind eye - oh only 6 weeks til end if year - no she wasnt different - and even if she was so what? It doesnt matter to bullies they gang up and bitch . .. stop blaming the child and start blaming the BULLIES they are the ones that are different - they are making the choices - they are telling lies - they are making kids lives a misery. Start asking `did u know your upsetting x? Yes they know yes they carry on!!!!!!

I am appalled that any teacher would turn a blind eye - though I do know it hapens, because it took DS being black and blue all down one side - the side his bully sat - for his bullyingb to become public.

It is appalling when it happens in any school, and it MUST be dealt with BUT it is not confined to only one type of school. DS was bullied in a cosy, small village primary. DH was bullied in a well known public school. DBro was bullied at a rural comprehensive. Others upthread have given examples of children bullied at grammars.

DS, by the way, a very 'different' child, was hit ONCE at his comp. I had had a phone call from the senior leadership team within an hour, the investigation was instant and thorough, and punishment was swift and decisive. No trouble since. DD had some unkind comments, euqlly swift communication with me via e-mail and equally swift clamping down on the perpetrators.

Bullying is hideous. Some schools are utterly crap at dealing with it. But I honestly don't think any one type of school is worse or better than any other. Although it is sometime the "naicer" type of school in all sectors that pretends it isn't happening. The "we do not have any bullying in this school" line. Always bollocks.

Yes comp dealt with it better - over spill from juniors not dealing with it - swift parents called - one occassion DD was kicked and called names - teacher said what do u want me to do about it lucky DD could speak to me - what about kids that cant?

Smokepole, completely agree with your post of 17.47. My experience completely correlates with what you said there.

Bullying happens everywhere - do not choose a school that says they don't have it because they are ,most likely, doing nothing about it. It should be made very clear that it is not tolerated and I am appalled that people think it is inevitable if you are different. It is not. You need a school with good pastoral care. The problem with more intelligent children is that they are far more subtle about it and it can go undetected. I am pleased that when my DS was bullied it was all sorted out and I was phoned, told what had happened and what had been done, all before DS got home.

You have a very good point at 20.47 Hakluyt.

Smokepole - what you say (explain) about the particular effect of bullying and winding up of a child with an ASD is very true - I have seen that happen and heard parents of children with ASD report this chain of events in RL and on MN.

However - I really do not think that bullying for difference is inevitable, or that it happens more in some settings than others. I am on another forum at the moment where a distraught mother is despairing at the sheer cleverness and sophistication of the bullying and manipulation of her dd by girls at her grammar school . One of my friends took her dd with hearing impairment out of the small private school she thought she would be protected in because of bullying and sent her to the local state school. Another friend whose dd has 2 mums took the exact same journey from private to state, and for the same reasons - both children are now happy.

As for inevitability: the very culture of a school can mitigate against bullying, the make-up of a school (as one young person, a wheelchair user, said to me about a very diverse class 'no one is different here because everyone is different'), the level of confidence and assertiveness of the child (as you say it is emotional vulnerability that bullies seem to be able to detect - and you don't have to have any 'different' label for that), and then most crucially, the management of it.

My Dc is small, academically accomplished, known as a school musician, has a noticeable abnormality which affects movement and makes sport a farce, has huge scars, and has never been bullied. Some over-assertive curiosity about his condition (trying to look under his clothes) was dealt with like an instant thunderbolt, and nothing like it has ever happened again.

Bullying is terrible. Schools can learn to deal with it effectively, and must be pressurised to do so. But far more schools are dealing with it effectively than in our own schooldays. I think it is important not to project our fears from our own school days into the better managed arena of many (not all) schools today.

Thank You Ptolemy. It is very easy for people , who have not experienced what having a child who is different to understand what the reality of 'snide' bullying is. The child who knows they are different , will not tell anyone for fear of making themselves become even more isolated from the mainstream groups. The bullied child will therefore go along with the bullying 'Mental' because they think it is the lesser of the two 'evils'

Mental Bullying is 5 times worse than 'physical' bullying, this can and has been done by 'teachers' . The pupil would not be believed anyway.

The reason I have a little understanding, of what such children go though, is because I have ASD myself and was severelly 'Mentally' bullied myself at school. They could not bully me 'physically' but the mental scars stay with you for life. The bullies would pretend to be my friend to get free ice creams ETC from my families cafe.

These experinces are also much worse than being 'spat' on by a drunken customer when being removed from a pub, 'because that is not directly aimed at you but because you are removing them'.