To be sick and tired of formula feeding AND breastfeeding negativity

[CookPassBabtrigde]

Sat in a cafe today on my own with DS (5 months) giving him his bottle of formula milk.
There was a couple sat a few tables away, woman looked over at us and then turned to her husband and said in a pretty loud voice "Oh it makes me sick when I see mothers giving their babies a bottle of man made muck out of a tin" and proceeded onto a rant about formula milk and how evil it is.
The man didn't say much but glanced apologetically in my direction a few times.

I tried so so hard to breastfeed my son. I really wanted to do it. I had various problems physically with it and I just wasn't able to keep up with him. I started giving him formula and breastfeeding whatever I could, which carried on for about 3 months and then my milk pretty much stopped so he is now 100% formula. I am happy with that, he is doing just fine. But I get these kind of comments often, sometimes just offhand snootiness from 'friends' sometimes blatant rudeness and nastiness. I try my best to smile and ignore, but today it got to me and I sat there in tears. I didn't say anything back because I just didn't know what to say.

On the other side of it, when I was breastfeeding and did so in public I would get rolled eyes, dirty looks, tutting, one lady even complained to me and said I 'should do that elsewhere'.

I feel like I can't bloody win.
Even if I chose to bottle feed from day 1, isn't that my choice and no one else's business?
What can I say to just shut people up and why can't I enjoy a coffee out and about without having to overhear this shit all the time?

There are lots of people, women and men, who think their way of parenting is the only right way. Thankfully, the majority of people are reasonable adults and aren't bothered what other people are doing.

I've BF, FF, and mixed fed and I've never really had comments. With my BF baby I had a few "how do you know he's getting enough?" type questions (reply: it's coming out the bottom so it's a fair guess that it's going in the top) and general curiosity. With my FF and mixed fed babies I got similar questions such as "how much does he/she have?". Typical asking after the baby stuff.

I had someone at softplay stare at me and loudly say "yuck!" to her companion, I smiled at her and stated back until she decided to look elsewhere. And FIL won't be in the house while I'm BFing so if I want him to leave I start fiddling with my bra strap :o

I'd definitely find a new cafe and perfect your 'go get fucked, mate' resting bitch face

YANBU. That's coming from a person who successfully BFing right now.
She's just a twunt. Ignore stupid people like that.

"From experience I'm surprised the amount of people doing any breastfeeding is as low as 34% - I don't have any mum friends in real life, but my MN postnatal group was overwhelmingly BF, and many continued beyond six months. It always surprises me to find out it's that low at six months!"

UK has particularly low rates at 6 months.

In Norway 80% of women are still breastfeeding at 6 months. But they value breastfeeding there and it's culturally entrenched. Hence 98% of women breastfeeding at birth.

"Also all the stats ....quotes...."

Can I just make a point that when it comes to this issue CONTEXT is everything.

Unacceptable: unsolicited comments in social settings about feeding choices by family, friends or strangers apropos of nothing.

Acceptable: referring to stats, studies etc in the context of a wider and generalised discussion on the subject of feeding choices, where people have willingly entered the debate to express a point of view about the subject.

I'm sure Moomin would agree it's right that people should be allowed to express and defend their point of view on any subject under the sun in an appropriate context if they can find someone else willing to engage in an adult debate about it.

She's a fucking rude idiot. She (and anyone you don't know) knows fuck all about your reasons. Even if she did. Fuck to the off. It's just another indication that a bunch of idiots feel it's their place to shame women on their decisions. You wouldn't sit in a cafe and remark on adults choice of cake vs sandwich or even tea vs coffee.
The only people to ask questions (questions not assumptions) would be medical based. She can do one.
I suggest carting gaffer tape around and offer it as a solution to such public displays of rudeness. Save them from themselves.

I have many friends/relatives who have BF and many who have FF. I have never heard of any member of the public making any comment to either group.

Seems to happen to some MNetters all the time though.

I'd like to know what she was eating in cafe. If it was a posh salad with out of season salad that had been forced grown (sprayed with loads of pesticides/random chemicals to keep it "crisp") or a mahoosive bit of cake full of sugar etc that you know is not particularly good for you, but will eat it all anyway.

Mrs judgy pants!!

Of course, Beloved. I was referring to this thread and a couple of others recently (not the IQ one) which have been discussions about stigma for FF or stigma for BF, and without any need to, the Stats Brigade have popped up just to remind us all that formula will make our babies fat, stupid and likely to die earlier, when that isn't the topic at hand.

Or, of course, refusing to believe that anyone is judgmental or makes comments about formula feeding, because the majority of people formula feed therefore it Just Doesn't Happen.

In a discussion about studies or statistics, or even someone saying 'Look what should I do', there is a place for statistics.

Think it was me who mentioned 'stats' etc.... Glad this thread regarding rudeness in a cafe didn't go down that particular route.

"which have been discussions about stigma for FF or stigma for BF, and without any need to, the Stats Brigade have popped up just to remind us all that formula will make our babies fat, stupid and likely to die earlier, when that isn't the topic at hand."

Not quite sure what threads you're referring too, but people usually refer to the evidence in response to repeated and strong assertions that it makes no difference how a baby is fed, a statement which it's not unreasonable to challenge I don't think, not in the context of discussions about baby feeding on AIBU which do tend to meander all over the shop.

I've also never come across anyone here saying that 'formula WILL make our babies fat, stupid and likely to die earlier'. I suppose what you're doing is reporting what people do say in a very distorted way, as what they may have said is something along the lines of 'well if there's research showing that ff is associated with higher rates of childhood obesity etc then perhaps it's not as trivial an issue as you are suggesting'.

The propensity of people like you to grotesquely misrepresent the arguments, while at the same time hand-wringing about 'stat twisting' ...

...sigh. No wonder some people (me sometimes) take the bait and run with it.

Not going to do that tonight however, the field is all yours. But really - if you want to stop these discussions degenerating into squabbles, it helps to be fair and accurate in the way you represent the range of views on the topic.

Beloved But telling someone who has been formula feeding for six months, that breast is best and formula is sub-standard, is like rubbing salt into a wound. FF mums aren't stupid. We're aware of this. It's practically everywhere we go. Every bit of information we get, every leaflet, every HV visit. And reading that isn't going to make someone think 'Ooh, well that's alright, I'll just start relactating then'. Instead it's going to make them feel like they deserve to get crap off people.

Whereas saying really, on an individual level it makes bugger all noticable difference, isn't a lie (unless you can walk into a classroom of five year olds and point out the breastfed ones?) and might make someone feel better, rather than kicking them while they're down.

That's what I'm getting at. Not 'No-one should ever post statistics in case it makes people feel bad'. Just that sometimes, I wonder why they do it - it's not going to make people magically able to lactate, all it's going to do is make people feel worse.

On threads where the benefits and negatives of each are being discussed? Absolutely fine.
On threads where someone is debating giving up BF at 2 weeks/2 months/whenever?
Fine.
On threads where people are just trying to make someone, who's already feeling a hefty amount of guilt, feel better? Not cool.

It's like me posting on a thread about someone being sneered at for BFing in a cafe and saying 'Yeah... but some people do feel disgusted by it'. It's factual, but is there any need for me to be a dick and say it? No.

I don't know anyone that gives a toss how a baby is fed!

Wow, do you not get out much? The outright propaganda at the hospital where my son was born 'one bottle will ruin your breastfeeding' (paraphrase, but that was the gist of it). I've almost never seen praise for breastfeeding that didn't involve bagging formula feeding.

Is that not somewhat inevitable though, StrangeLookingParasite, when the two options you have are to breastfeed or formula feed? There's no other substance that is suitable for babies, so pros of one are nearly always going to be contrasted against the other option. Any statement about breastfeeding is going to have a "compared to ff" at the end, just like any statement about formula feeding is going to say "compared to breastfeeding".

To quote my HV when I was giving one week old DS2 a formula feed each morning: "I can help you stop breastfeeding if that's what you want to do, or I can help you continue if that what you prefer but you need to do whichever works best for you and your family."

MW when I said I was planning to FF when pregnant with DS1: "Okay, that's fine. I need to give you the leaflet and I'd recommend reading it, but it's entirely your choice."

HV when I stopped BFing DD at all at around 6wks old and went entirely onto FF: "that's completely your decision, I'm not supposed to give out the leaflet on how to make up feeds but there you go, you can have a copy."

Hardly propoganda.

But....
Breast milk is "man made" as in, made by man.

Also, I like beans. So my BM would me made by me of the species man using energy from a tin.

Man made from a tin for everyone!

I WIN THE DEBATE!!!

I did think that at the time drellie

Just don't get into it. I work at an independent holistic centre where there is breastfeeding support, pregnancy yoga, doulas etc. Two of my children were topped up with formula from early on. I just don't talk about it at work but I've obviously heard every anti formula statement going: some of the people I work with, while lovely to women in person, have very trenchant, rigid views on formula. I just don't get upset about it because I've made peace with my own demons and learned to trust my own experience. I know why we had to do it, in the context of our lives at that time. I don't need approval.

I remain baffled as to why anyone should even have an opinion on how some else (especially a stranger) chooses to feed their baby.

I couldn't care less.

I have breastfed for over 7 years and counting and have never had a single comment or look. Actually, I lie, I had lots of pleasant smiles, sometimes a whispered "well done", people reminiscing about feeding their own babies. I think sometimes it's easy to misinterpret, especially when you are feeling vulnerable.

My friend really struggled with bfing and in public she thought people were looking and judging. We went for lunch one day and she was upset about an older couple talking about her and being nasty. I hadn't noticed but when I paid a bit more attention and shuffled over a bit to listen (ready to ask them to stop if they were being nasty) they were glancing over occasionally but not looking at the bfing (I think in hindsight they probably didn't even realise) but commenting on how lovely the baby was, how little, do you remember when ours were that tiny, isn't that mum doing well etc. My friend was convinced they were being nasty. They were really very discreetly glancing over at the beautiful little baby on the next table.

I'm not saying you didn't meet constant tutting, eye-rolling and dirty looks wherever you went but having never experienced a single negative look or comment despite feeding all over the place in nearly every conceivable situation and having worked for many years as a peer supporter, I've not known of people receiving more than the very odd comment. I have however seen a few people become defensive and anxious over feeding choices and misinterpreting a situation.

Any statement about feeding a baby can be interpreted negatively when it's actually value free. It happens all the time on these threads. Perhaps it's common in rl too.

If that woman did say that about muck then more fool her. She sounds very unhappy.

Hate people so quick to judge, I've never had anyone say anything to me, If I had I'd of replied with 'well, I breast fed my first and ended up with a huge breast abscess that needed an operation, I've now got a deformed breast, care to have a goosey?!'
Even after the abscess I seriously thought about bf'ing no4, who's 8 weeks, but she has terrible reflux and I used to have to change her up to 6 times a day from her being sick, the FORMULA I have put her on is made specifically for reflux and she hasn't been sick once.
The point I'm trying to make is some people have their reasons and some people it's just a preference, but regardless it has fuck all to do with nosey judgemental nobs

"I've not known of people receiving more than the very odd comment. I have however seen a few people become defensive and anxious over feeding choices and misinterpreting a situation."

^

This - in spades.

In my real life l have never encountered a beast feeding zealot.
I have had three children over 10 years.
Not one.
I now wonder if there are masses of them, that l just haven't bumped in to?
I have lived in all types of places during that time.
Please don't give it a second thought.
It honestly means nothing.
I don't mean that in a patronising way (l hope) just that one day, you won't mind so much. :)
An example of a real life situation (with mums)
Mum no 1 "did you breastfeed? “
Mum no 2" no, he didn't get on with it, guess he is gonna prefer legs when he is older!“
Everyone laughs...nods and looks supportive.
Sorry you encountered some nonsense op

I'm glad, feminine, and I'm glad most people on here haven't (even though everyone on here is saying it happens to people on MN all the time...well it doesn't according to this thread! :) )
This has happened to me though. I'm slightly pissed off that it's happened to me. I am not exaggerating this story, though she didn't come up to my face and say this shit, she bloody well did say it. I don't care so much what she said just bewildered by her need to say it.

I've encountered a few breastfeeding zealots. They haven't all been horrible, they just have their opinions. That is fine, I just don't want opinions, especially unsolicited ones, shoved in my face.

Encouraging breastfeeding is great, bullying mothers is not. What I've found sad though is that incidents of breastfeeding mothers being publicly embarrassed is still happening - the Claridges incident was only a few months ago and what's unbelievable is the amount of people that took Claridges' side. The negative comments can go both ways, and they need to stop.

I have met some lovely women since having my DS, some breastfeed and some don't but all support each other's decision. I'm not saying this kind of thing happens all the time But since becoming a mother I've had a negative comment expressed by a stranger more than once, and tbh once is too often.

I am preaching to the converted here, I know. But thanks all for letting me just vent, and thanks to those with kind words. I don't have many people to talk to for most of the week so this stuff can just dwell on my mind sometimes. It's not nice to feel singled out or talked about.
And thank you all for not turning this into a FF v BF debate, that's the exact opposite of what i wanted when I started this thread.