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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think racism is unacceptable however it is put across...

55 replies

ThreeMoreDaysTillFriday · 31/03/2015 17:13

It seems to be a running trend that racist jokes in my office are ok. I've heard conversations saying it's ok because it's a joke and that anyone offended is too stupid to realise that it actually funny Hmm

My problem is how to handle it. Some of these "jokes" are coming from the owner (very small company) and there is nobody to actually complain to.

Odd that these "jokes" never happened when we had people of different races in the company but now we don't it's happening on a daily basis.

Aside from telling them that they are racist and the idiots I don't know what else I can do.

OP posts:
Leafitout · 31/03/2015 17:42

They sound like not very nice people. Sad that this is funny to them but the one consulation is that you don't have to mix with them outside of work. The owner should step up and pull them into line

Original poster
ThreeMoreDaysTillFriday · 31/03/2015 17:48

The owner is probably worse than the rest of them if I'm honest.

OP posts:
Duckdeamon · 31/03/2015 17:50

Do you have other job options?

Racism and abuse of power so it's hard for people to challenge them: nice employer eh?

WorraLiberty · 31/03/2015 17:51

I don't think there's anything else you can do really.

It would be nice to rid the world of idiots but sadly that's not an option.

DoraGora · 31/03/2015 17:52

I don't think there's much that you can do about it, tbh. Maybe look for a new job whenever possible.

Original poster
ThreeMoreDaysTillFriday · 31/03/2015 20:35

I have been looking but unfortunately nothing that fits the hours I currently work has come up

OP posts:
SpanishMoss · 31/03/2015 20:45

It's better that it's not happening to people directly,isn't it? Don't stir.

Icimoi · 31/03/2015 20:58

I suppose in technical terms you could raise a formal grievance that, as a non-racist, you find their jokes and their assumption that you will go along with it grossly offensive. If that didn't work, you could leave and make a claim for constructive dismissal. But it's a very dangerous strategy in reality as it could affect your employability in future.

Can you effectively laugh at them (rather than with them) in a manner which is roughly along the lines of "Are there really Neanderthals like you still in existence?"

Original poster
ThreeMoreDaysTillFriday · 31/03/2015 21:47

Whilst I am not in a position to risk my job I refuse to go along with it either. I've up until this point managed to ignore most of it but was ridiculous how many comments were made today.

I know I'm going to end up snapping but then if they see fit to make these idiotic jokes then I guess they have to accept that someone else is going to call them on it at some point.

I just can't get over that these seemingly intelligent people actually think it's not only acceptable but funny also!

OP posts:
oneofthosenicemuslims2015 · 31/03/2015 22:02

I just can't get over that these seemingly intelligent people actually think it's not only acceptable but funny also!

Hollow laugh. As a person of colour I'm astounded at how often I think this statement....also add "and think I should work harder for less, accept a second rate lifestyle, be "grateful" for xyz and so on and so on.

I don't know what leg you have to stand on legally/in the workplace but saying NOTHING adds to it imo. Sorry if that makes it worse for you- but you see it all makes it worse for people of those races.

DoraGora · 31/03/2015 22:07

I can see where you're coming from, snugbug. But, starting a fight over other people's prejudices, especially when they employ you, is a character trait. Some people are so up front that you can't get away with things in front of them, whether you employ them or not, and other people aren't.

There is no duty, moral or otherwise, to stand up against racism. It would just be preferable (for minorities) if people did.

oneofthosenicemuslims2015 · 31/03/2015 22:24

starting a fight over other people's prejudices, especially when they employ you, is a character trait.

Um. I said if you say Nothing. Not "unsheath your sword and declare war". OP said the comments are getting worse/ more frequent. ... so what happens when the next person of colour works there? Institutional discrimination isn't pulled out of thin air magically it takes ordinary people upholding, encouraging and not challenging the status quo. It's not the OPs fault her boss and colleagues are idiots but fuck if I'm supposed to pretend it's "ok" to know many people would just slink away saying or doing NOTHING.

There is no duty, moral or otherwise, to stand up against racism.
Wow. I have no words. Shame on you.

It would just be preferable (for minorities) if people did.
I'm sorry what preference would that be? To be treated equally to their equals? How dare those minorities.

As you were white people, consider this minority told. No more trouble here massa.

DoraGora · 31/03/2015 22:33

The legal obligation is not to discriminate according to race. Declaring that you do not like your boss' sense of humour (if you can call it that) because he is either stupid, racist or both, is a declaration of war, however softly or diplomatically you do it. it says that we are different, even if we share a skin colour, because I can not put up with you, if you behave like this. (Either you mean it, or you're bluffing.) If you're bluffing Neandertals and they find you out, you're likely to be on the receiving end. If you're not bluffing, and you can sort out a Neandertal, then great. But, those aren't the qualities that can be called up on mumsnet.

If you want racial protection then it has to be done through a court (as it was through the Commission for Racial Equality) that was a legal body, not a moral one. I think Trevor Philips had the edge when it comes to thinking this problem through, if you don't mind me saying so.

TerryTheGreenHorse · 31/03/2015 22:39

I'm very confused by your posts Dora to be honest, I'm not sure what you mean by a character trait.

OrlandoWoolf · 31/03/2015 22:43

"It's just banter, innit".

The excuse of bigots everywhere. Sexism, racism, homophobia. It takes a lot to challenge people - especially when they have authority in a job over you.

You could challenge them. People don't like being challenged. Thing is - it's probably best not to do it when everyone's there. A bit like the stereotypical group of teenagers and they act up when challenged but are fine when it's one person.

Such jokes aren't funny or appropriate. I fear you'll get a negative reaction though.

DoraGora · 31/03/2015 22:44

In plain language, it's called balls. In a corporation or in a formal procedure, discrimination on racial grounds is illegal. But, having an unpleasant sense of humour is not usually considered illegal. (It can be.) Where the sense of humour is not racially threatening or an incitement to violence, and is simply questionable humour, then what we are discussing is differences in taste (albeit serious ones). In such a case the victim and employee requires the strength of character to say to the boss

change your sense of humour, right now, or else...

MissMarplesBloomers · 31/03/2015 22:45

There is no duty, moral or otherwise, to stand up against racism.

WTAF ???

We should ALL stand up to everyday bigotry, whether racism, sexism or any other -ism you can name. Doesn't have to be an argument but by quietly and firmly challenging this every day bigotry by stating it is unacceptable we can start to change this "oh its just a joke" culture.

I recently had to challenge someone I m very fond of for sharing a video called "Retard cops" a Downs Syndrome actor being inappropriately cast as a cop in a "funny skit"

"Oh its alright they're all paid actors they're not being exploited."

Original poster
ThreeMoreDaysTillFriday · 31/03/2015 22:48

I agree that to say nothing is bad which is why I'm finding it so difficult, I'm not normally a person to keep quiet about any form of racism. The settings in which these conversations have happened I feel I would have to challenge an entire group and (and I see the irony) I do feel locking horns with my boss in front of everyone has an element of being unprofessional (again, not that they adhere to the same principles).

I'm going to raise it in my review next week if the opportunity does not present beforehand. That way it's also on their records and not just a one on one conversation. Hopefully this will mean they zip it and there is minimal backlash for me.

OP posts:
DoraGora · 31/03/2015 22:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OrlandoWoolf · 31/03/2015 22:51

*In such a case the victim and employee requires the strength of character to say to the boss

change your sense of humour, right now, or else...*

No - they can ask them to explain the joke. "I don't get it" - then watch as the person explains their stereotype of someone. "So you're saying that all people like that behave this way".

Asking someone to explain their joke and then seeing how they dig a hole. Or saying "Don't you think that's a bit racist?" after they explain it.
And if they say no, just say "Well, I think it is racist". No threats. Just a challenge to them to explain it and see if they would admit to being a racist.

DoraGora · 31/03/2015 23:04

Well, alright, the so-called-joke can be deleted by mumsnet. But, I don't think that's how it works in the workaday world.

Mummyinamask · 31/03/2015 23:07

We all have a duty to stand up against racism.

Dawndonnaagain · 31/03/2015 23:07

It's better that it's not happening to people directly,isn't it? Don't stir.
Shock

IFinishedTheBiscuits · 31/03/2015 23:13

Being white-British and in the building trade, my husband has heard a lot of racist jokes over the years. And although he would never have joined in, now he has mixed race children it's become more of an issue.
A couple of years ago someone at his work used the 'P' word and he lost his temper (he doesn't like confrontation) and said "my kids are mixed race and I find that extremely offensive". He said they were all very shocked and made their excuses and disappeared. However, they're all as bad as ever again now. Unfortunately a lot of people like that will never change.

ChowNowBrownCow · 31/03/2015 23:14

This time last year I stood up for a young chinese lad. He was called a fucking chinky, the next time he was called a chinky. Each time I addressed the manager who spoke in such a vile way. She laughed at me. I was shaking inside, with upset and anger. I reported her to the director. She was suspended pending investigation. The chinese lad left after hearing her call him a chinky. Though when asked, he said he didn't hear her. I know he did! I couldn't live with myself for not standing up and speaking out. It had to be done, and though with the investigation, the hearings x 2, the dismissal of my manager, colleagues refusing to speak to me etc, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. It took four months of me worrying about it every day. Now the managers gone, I am pleased with the end result but you have to be very strong and determined to see it through. I disagree that you should always say something. There's a time and place, especially in your situation. You can 'say' so much without even speaking. Don't laugh. Go and make a drink. Walk away. Start typing. Make a phone call. Your manager will pick up on this (eventually) and so will your colleagues! You may not teach them anything, but they will know you don't approve. If it's unbearable then you may have to leave. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, it's horrible for you.