to think that senior workers at NHS will lie about serious errors if they think they will get sued

[calmseeker]

In my job if I do something serious which endangers another person (albeit unintentional) I lose my job. I doubt colleagues would lie to protect me or themselves. in the NHS this is not often the case. Speaking from personal experience when something goes seriously wrong a web or lies is drawn. Ranks close and you are lied to. The culture has to change because not only is this immoral, it makes people on the receiving end of shoddy treatment all the more determined to see justice done. It would be better if a culture existed whereby a consultant, doctor etc... could say 'yes I made a terrible mistake and I am truly sorry'

I think part of the problem is the blame culture. It kind of swung from a no blame culture to what's meant to be a fair blame culture. Which on paper sounds fab. People should be accountable for mistakes.

However there seems to be no differentiation between a good employee who makes a one of error (perhaps partly due to a systems failure) and a reckless employee who frequently flouts guidelines/policy.

In these days of Keogh, CQC, Kirkup, Francis management are running scared. So rather than run the risk of being accused of not acting enough, covering stuff up then they've gone in the opposite direction. Blame, blame, blame, suspend, refer to nmc, sack the staff, call in the police.

As a result employees will be more inclined to cover stuff up to save their own skin.

They already lie, they endanger patients and then they aren't penalised as 'they won't be truthful next time and will then take 6 months off with stress!'

That's what an NHS HR director said to me when I asked why NHS staff are not held accountable.

It's the best reason for privatising the whole shebang IMO.

I went from private financial services to the NHS and was shocked that you could basically get away with anything.

In our NHS trust nurses faked care plans after someone took their own life, it was subsequently discovered and they still have jobs. What other industry could you get away with blatantly lying in the case of someone dying and still have a job.

Who regulates the HR director?

If my dept was as incompetent as the HR dept that apparently manages us, we would have been shut down.

Is the HR manager qualified to say who should and shouldn't be on sick leave?

HR and medical management is the area you can fuck up as much as is physically and metaphorically possible and trip on up the ladder.

There was something I read last year where nurses were arrested at a hospital after someone died and it was alleged that they'd falsified care plans to make it look like Obs had been done which hadn't. There was talk they might be charged with manslaughter but it's all gone quiet now.

It was a joke MrsMerton, fuck up, fess up, go off sick.

here

I am lucky to still be alive following the 'situation' which the NHS staff maintains was a figment of my imagination. My child (very young) would have been left without a mother.

Was Essex Viva.

my child's consultant has admitted effectively falsifying medical records but only after I threatened legal action

Was Essex Viva.

My advocate (not legal a representative but from a patient support group) told me she had been in the job or representing patients for about 30 years (at meetings and through liaising with hospital authorities) and had never once heard a medical professional admitting responsibility or saying sorry.

my closest friends mum died on the Liverpool pathway. but notes were written retrospectively and they claimed she wasn't on it. they went to court but got nowhere, despite having reasonable evidence.

I think its symptomatic of coverups everywhere - LEA's lying at tribunal so child doesn't get a SEN statement, Tony Blair Iraq, ministers expenses, Saville, MI5 paedophile investigation recently.

its just everywhere.

Electronic noting has put a stop to falsifying records and losing records. The moment a complaint is received or an untoward incident occurs, the permissions to access the electronic record are stopped. Anyone trying to get into those records will be 'seen' by the system.

In the Trust I work in I would trust the doctors 100%, the managers not at all.

nightsky +++++++

There was a lot of none electronic notetaking at the hospital I was at and worse no records at all after some visits.

My hospital notes were altered to cover up that they had made a mistake. It is blantly obvious that they did it, it is in a different colour pen and different hand writing. The docotor who did it didn't see me for 2 weeks after the event he changed. We wanted to take legal action, but we couldn't afford it at the time and it's too late now.

Another very senior surgeon at another hospital made a mistake 2 years ago. He is adamant that he didn't, 2 others think he did. I've filled in all the forms and am awaiting the copies of my notes. We will be taking legal advice this time.

That was the hospital my notes were altered at Viva.

Well I'm a medical professional. I was on maternity leave and back for just 6 weeks when I was suspended pending an investigation into a drug dispensing related incident. Which I was ironically not involved with, yet the three people who were all colluded and said in their statements that I forced them to participate in the incident. It was a case of one persons word against three at the end of the day and my lawyer advised me to take a negotiated settlement to avoid a disciplinary hearing and dismissal for gross misconduct which for me would have been career suicide. I felt it all stemmed from a meeting I had with the matron of the hospital where I complained that procedures and protocols were not being followed and that the manager of our area was not coping and was ineffective. So yes, you are definitely not being unreasonable. I believe in my case the person in charge of the hospital orchestrated a string of statements to be made to ensure that I as a potential whistle blower was silenced. I will never trust colleagues again.

My MIL died last year very unexpectedly after a missed diagnosis of bowel cancer.

The day before she died the Consultant took us all in the office to tell us she wasn't going to survive and then he admitted it was the hospitals fault.

She'd had a scan of her bowels six months earlier due to side effects she was having and the scan was reported to be clear, but the Consultant said that when he looked back at the scan he could see there was evidence of a tumour and at the time it had been missed.

It must have been very hard for him to admit that to us but we are glad he did.

Thenightsky .... Our electronic notes allows changes to be made to the notes without any record of who made the changes when they were made or what changes were made. This was another thing I complained about. Not all electronic notes are that good.

mumyum. That's terrible.

ChaiseLounger is right that lies and cover-ups are everywhere. But in the NHS people die because of it. And it's a very strong culture, unbreakable.

Well if it happens to you or a love one instinct you want justice

meant instinctively you want justice