To think that depression does not lead to mass murder

[TheoriginalLEM]

and that this "assumption" is quite dangerous.

Because no one could possibly understand why the German pilot did what he did, it needs a label and the label chosen by the media, fueled by the assumption that anyone who did such a thing would be depressed?

I am a fully qualified armchair psychologist, with my training background rooted firmly in mumsnet AIBU, too many psychological thrillers and a Cracker addiction and my diagnosis is that this man was a psychopath.

The ex girl friend saying that the guy said he wanted to go down in history, change the system and be remembered, could be quoting any young person on the verge of their wonderful career, full of niavety and enthusiasm - For example, when i started my PhD i proclaimed that i was going to cure paralysis due to spinal trauma and receive a nobel prize - I'm still waiting........ I probably didn't for one minute think that would actually happen, ever never mind the fact that i am crap at science.

The theory fits, the guy was depressed so commited suicide in a way that absolutely will put him in the history books. Err, but there were 150 other people on that plane!

I suffer from depression and worry that one day i will be so depressed that i would actually commit suicide (don't worry, i haven't felt like that for a long time) but i am pretty damned sure i wont be taking anyone with me.

Depression is a serious, debilitating mental illness/disability - but i think there was something far more complicated going on in that man's head!

There is talk in the media of him hiding an illness - could have have had a brain tumour for example?

Maybe this awful tragedy was caused by a man's depression but i think it is too simple to make this assumption, it just gives us all a "reason" because its unfathomable and to have this tragedy happen without reason somehow makes it even worse, we have no one to direct the anger at.

Do people consider that other people who, whilst appearing perfectly sane and reasonable, suddenly perform heinous massacres and then turn the gun on themselve to be "depressed". Nup, downright evil is my first thought - maybe this pilot was just that, Evil.

I think it's for the experts to say really

Speculation doesn't help at all.

Anyway, 'downright evil' people can suffer from depression too.

psychotic depression - google it

Yabu and really it's up to the experts to decide. It does explain a lot of this tragedy though.

I totally agree with you Worra, whilst it is natural for people to speculate i think that too much information is put into the public domain to speculate over sometimes. Lets face it, much of what comes from the media is speculation and hopefully behind closed doors some answers will be found.

People do feel better for having a scapegoat, or some kind of "explanation", whether that be speculation, rational deduction or expert opinion. The sad fact is, we'll never know exactly what happened, and how the families of all involved are meant to move on without that element of closure, I'll never know.

His depression has played a part in his actions - whether there were further personality disorders, anxiety disorders etc a mix of depression and any other mental illness or personality disorder would mean that the result was due to these factors with this man. It doesn't mean that others with mental illness would do this only that he, with his own unique set of issues and experiences and character and mental health traits did do this.

They should instigate a 3 man crew - always at least 2 member in the cockpit rule.

Yanbu, of course you're not.

However in this set of circumstances, his illness almost certainly played a part in his actions. I'm not sure how it is helpful to pretend otherwise?

The reports aren't saying that all people with mental health issues kill others but to not report that this man did have mental health issues would be inaccurate. They played a part in his individual actions.

My first thought was that you can't see all depressed people in the same way but it's one reason why years ago when people were locked away for treatment it was because people were afraid of what such a person might do next. Whatever caused it it's really tragic and i know one thing my DD will recall in years to come just as I have the tragic news reports that made the headlines when I was her age.

Has it been confirmed he was suffering from depression then? I thought he had problems with his eyesight which would have meant an end to his career as a pilot?

Didn't the hospital say he had an illness, but it was not depression?

Lots of people have MH problems and live with them, but not many of them are in a position to be able to kill hundreds with a touch of a button.

He wasn't fit to fly on the day, that much is known.
I have a feeling that it was far worse than just 'depression'.

According to the german newspapers (strangely not reported here, but u can check on internet) he converted to being a muslim in the six months he was "off". Make of that what you will!!

Yanbu and all this speculation is ludicrous. Very damaging to mental health.

It is a very small minority of people with mental health problems who pose a danger to others, even fewer who kill others.

This speculation will set back the stigma of mental illness years.

As someone who works in mental health, it makes me very cross.

Landrover, I just googled that. Gawker (TBH, not usually a site I hold in that much regard), has the following take:

antiviral.gawker.com/the-evidence-that-the-germanwings-copilot-was-muslim-is-1694063626

(In summary, a journalist from ONE German news site made the above claim on his personal website, but the actual evidence that he converted to Islam is completely non-existent.)

Landrover, I was just waiting for someone to blame Islam and the Muslims .... because gosh, they are always the ones who are to blame, and converting to Islam somehow makes his actions more understandable, does it? What a load of rubbish.

YANBU I think it adds to the stigma of depression and mental health. Progress was being made with how people viewed depression and accepted it as something many of us experience in our life time. I think this sets it back again.

www.tpnn.com/2015/03/27/breaking-germanwings-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/

This story is doing nothing but harm for the many people who lead very ordinary lives whilst managing mental health problems. As if the stigma wasn't already enough.....

Landrover are you serious?! That link is to a site called the Tea Party News Network - they are absolute loons. The first line of the "report" says "According to a German media site, it is speculated that the 28 year old copilot who crashed a Germanwings flight this week had converted to Islam."

Apologies, it was insensitive and thoughtless of me to use "loons" on a mental health thread. That doesn't take away from the fact that the Tea Party is not a REMOTELY credible news source.

sooo, on the one hand we have people saying depression doesn't lead to mass murder! but on the other hand its nothing to do with converting to muslim? so what was the cause then?

I was talking about this with my DH earlier. I get that he was depressed in the past (and possibly still depressed at the time of the crash) but depression alone would surely not make you do this? There has to be some other reason for it, quite possibly mental health related, but not straightforward depression.

Depressed people commit suicide all the time but they don't usually make a conscious decision to murder a couple of hundred people at the same time. If he wanted to crash a plane as his suicide method of choice he could have taken out a small hobby plane and gone off and done it by himself.

Landrover are you genuinely saying that those are the only two options??!

Well what I am saying landrover is that it's possible he was suffering from something like paranoid schizophrenia and heard voices in his head compelling him to do it. That is a MH issue but it is not the same as being depressed.

I agree it has to be more than depression, depressed people who want to end their life don't generally take others with them. Imo.