to post a friendly reminder about school residential trips?

[ErmNoNoNo]

Seems as good a time as any: lots of school posts (as always in AIBU), the wine is flowing (Friday) and the summer term is coming up (come on weather please)...

It seems every year that there are many parents that are genuinely shocked to find out that teacher and TAs who accompany the class on residential school visits do not get paid a single penny more than their normal wage.

Yes, we volunteer. Yes, we deal with all the tears. Yes, we are on duty 24 hours and sometimes get VERY little sleep. Yes, we deal with the vomit. Yes, we encourage and make sure they get the absolute best out of their time there. Yes, we deal with all medical issues even though, surprisingly we are not qualified. Yes, when its mid-week, we also have to go back into work the next day.

Yes... we would really, really appreciate it if you just say 'thank you', when you pick your child up at he end of it.

(all you REASONABLE parents, I know you do - but honestly, the amount of parents who think we get paid for this would shock you)

Worra you are flogging a dead horse by continuing to reassert the claim that trips are career enhancing. Doing trips is considered good behaviour by unpromoted teachers. It simply doesn't fall into the kind of crap stuff you need to do to be considered for promoted posts.

Worra you are flogging a dead horse by continuing to reassert the claim that trips are career enhancing. Doing trips is considered good behaviour by unpromoted teachers. It simply doesn't fall into the kind of crap stuff you need to do to be considered for promoted posts.

I wonder how many teachers these days are put under pressure to go on residentials. After all the threat of capability is never far away and refusal to go risks you being identified as someone who isn't a team player in some schools.
I think it's helpful if parents are aware that teachers don't receive extra pay for going.
And yes, I always thought it was nice to get a quick verbal thank you.

YANBU

A useful reminder!

Christ, 'promotion' again? I haven't mentioned promotion on this thread, other than to tell another poster that I haven't mentioned promotion on this thread...

My experience is that if you are a teacher in a year group that goes on residentials, you are simply expected to go unless there are reasons (illness, disabled dependents) that make it clearly impossible.

If you are not in such year groups, you may be asked, but are at absolute liberty to refuse.

In neitgher case does it have any bearing on anything else - how you are viewed, promotion etc. Capability / promotion / pay progression is on the objective basis of appraisal targets, and unless taking / leading a residential trip is one of those targets, it won't be taken into account.

worra I have read your posts properly, and they are snide to say the least. You really aren't painting yourself in a good light.

Trips don't directly form part of the criteria for moving up the pay scale but teachers have to contribute to school life, which can include trips, so it does depend on the nature of the school and the opinion of the head teacher and governors.

The issue with trips for teachers in secondary schools (I imagine the pressure is worse in primary because one class 'belongs' to one teacher) is that teachers are definitely not paid for the extra hours of work they undertake whilst they are there. Even having the responsibility of teenagers without the boundaries of the school is a massive pressure and some parents just don't seem to appreciate this at all. Many teachers are fantastic classroom based teachers, but controlling a group of headstrong teens (however lovely) out in public is a completely different job.

I don't think the OP is asking for a huge fanfare, with a chorus of "aren't teachers great!", just a tiny amount of gratitude at pick up instead of the usual moaning and whinging - "the bus is late", "we've been here hours", "X has lost this/that you have to pay for it". It just makes the whole thing seem like a massive hassle and a waste of our time.

For the posters who say that teachers just shouldn't volunteer - it's not actually that straight forward. There has to be a lot of pressure from senior staff because without volunteers then the trips can't go ahead. It can make working life very awkward of you continually say no. There is also pressure from the students too, knowing that unless someone volunteers they won't get to go. Teachers (well most of them) do want the students to have these extra opportunities. Then there is the issue of being fair on your colleagues - it leads to resentment when the same staff get lumbered with the same duties and trips each year, again, leading to resentment in the workplace.

School trips are very stressful; some parents are very unwilling to give teachers the benefit of the doubt (and their experience) when things don't go to plan. They are quick to jump when things don't go as expected. They always hold the teacher directly accountable even when it's a fall out of a friendship group, and unexpected change to the itinerary, a late to cancelled flight etc, etc, etc. it's to the point now where returning from a trip is something to be dreaded because of the reaction of some of the parents when we do get back.

I can't believe that the justification for not saying thank you is because 'teachers are paid for the trip' and it's a holiday for the teachers'. It's like the teachers who attend are being treated like the students who attend! I'm sorry but these members of staff have ensured the safety of your children for however many hours and put the effort in to make sure the trip went ahead. Your children return safely and (hopefully) happy - what's wrong with saying a quick 'thanks' on their return along with the polite action of being on time?

Only on Mumsnet could those excuses be mistaken for plausible 'reasons' for avoiding saying thank you!

Worra - but I think your experience of it being discussed on governing bodies and going towards pay/promotions or whatever IS the more unusual one. Certainly I have never come across it and I don't know any teacher or TA where it has been. Likewise I know of several teachers who have done very well within the career without ever going on a residential.

I certainly have never met a teacher or TA who has gone on residentials or done any trip for the sake of their career or pay!

Either way, unlike someone who volunteers in a sector that has absolutely nothing to do with their career, a teacher going on residential school trips is likely to go down quite well with their superiors don't you think?

Not really.
In some schools it is just expected.
In some schools, SMT couldn't care less.
In some, it is just lumped in with everything else.

There's nothing snide about openly admitting to finding self congratulatory threads, distasteful...particularly when volunteering isn't likely to do the OP's career any harm.

'Snide' would mean I'm somehow trying to disguise that, surely?

Either way, the thread seems to be going round in circles now so you'll be pleased to know I'm going to bale out

RUNNING

I'm guessing you're not a teacher

Not possible to refuse at our school unless you have a very very good reason. Not considered at all for pay rises or promotion

I don't mind them but am absolutely knackered at the end of them. I think it's karma though, my DCs have been on plenty of trips over the years and its my turn to take other people's now.

Of course YANBU to want a thank you and yes, you are going above and beyond but I find this thread a bit . I say that because there are many scenarios when people are not thanked for going above and beyond in their jobs. I get no thanks in my job but I don't ask for them or want them either. I do it because I want to make a difference, because it's the choice I made and because, I get paid to do things right. That satisfaction I feel and praise from my manager (rare, I must add!) is all the thanks I need. So, YABU on that account.

"There's nothing snide about openly admitting to finding self congratulatory threads, distasteful."

I agree wholeheartedly with this and I'm not sure why you've had such a hard time on this thread. I read the whole thing and could clearly see that you express your gratitude to teachers but found this thread distasteful. I feel the same way.

I am not a teacher, but the main part of my job is to help teachers organize day and residential trips in a secondary school. Our lovely teachers are always delighted when they get thanked. They are less thrilled when parents don't turn up on time to collect - please do! Very, very rarely someone has emailed or written a note afterwards explaining what the DC got out of the visit etc, something like this is the best present (although small mouthfuls of chocolate to be scoffed in between lessons are also welcome ).
Apart from the rigours of the actual trip our staff spend a lot of time beforehand liaising with parents, Learning Support, tutors and pastoral staff to fully apprise themselves of the medical, emotional and social needs of the children. I am really very proud to be able to help them

I was discussing this with a much younger friend of mine. There is no option in her school - if you teach the year group you go, regardless of home circumstances. She is a single mum with no family support nearby, so she had to pay residential childminding services (luckily her usual before and after school minder would do this) for her two children and pay to have the cats and dogs in kennels! She went and her class had a wonderful time, so that made her happy - but free holiday it is not!

0010001 - Actually, I am. University though, not schools. If that counts?

Worra pay progression should not be based on ability/willingness to go on residential trips as this discriminates against those who are unable to go even if they wanted to, eg for those with caring responsibilities, certain medical conditions etc.

I find the thread very weird! A thank you doesn't cost anything and is simple. I can't see why it isn't an automatic response to anyone who is helpful- of any age, job etc.
It never ceases to amaze me that a child can do something like hold open a door and the adult sails through as if it is a right, not even a smile- never mind a thank you.

A residential has nothing to do with career advancement.

Until recently I worked as a teacher in a school that was well known for its trips. Going on or running trips is certainly something that could help a promotion.

We always had more staff wanting to go on trips than there were places. I have travelled all over the world as a teacher and whilst it has not quite been a holiday I been incredibly lucky to go to some amazing places free and would not pretend otherwise. We even have staff who pay a reduced rate to join us on some of our bigger trips.