To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

[Firethorn]

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

And again why are you prepared to consort with people who have friends who threaten criminal damage?

after the threats made by the 'other dad' to go back at night, open all the gates and teach the dog a lesson, that warrants a letter or even better a phone call to the local Police!

Well, I don’t suppose he meant it. Even the most ignorant sheep-chaser would have some idea of how that would play out. When I said “showing any other signs of such culpable ignorance” that would include being overheard by anyone else in the village threatening to open farm gates or to harm a working dog. I don’t know about the OP's SiL, but her friend would have to be a bit of a nutcase himself to do that.

Yes the children were wrong to chase sheep, and I now know the sheep were at risk. However, at the time we did not know sheep are highly sensitive to stress and can die or miscarry if disturbed like this. I disagree this is common knowledge

Every time you add "But" or "However" OP you dig that hole you're in just that little bit deeper.

How many times do you need it repeating? Chasing animals is wrong

Not sure there is any point to this but Firethorn you, for whatever reason, were party to an act of stupidity and cruelty. Sloping shoulders do you no defence here.

The reasons are irrelevant though to you the matter seems to hinge on the fact that the incident seems to have come about through ignorance and a total lack of respect. In future if you meet an animal you are unfamiliar with that does not belong to you leave it alone. The only exception to this is if the owner gives you permission to approach.

When the group were stopped and challenged by the poor sod who is responsible and did have a lot to lose, you took offence. You have no right to take offence, you were in the wrong.

Accept you were in the wrong, take it on the chin and do not repeat that behaviour then continue on through your life a little wiser.

You are responsible for your actions. Your actions were wrong. If you don't like the response that gets then don't do it again!! Leave the farmer alone unless your purpose is to cover the cost of damages and get a grip. For what it is worth I think you should cover the potential costs, then you might begin to understand why the farmer was so upset, aside from the obvious cruelty shown to the animals.

Well, I don’t suppose he meant it.

Well, Kleinzeit, why say it then? And why did the OP think it necessary to repeat it here? Bloody stupid thing to say, and given their history with the sheep chasing, etc., it's certainly not a given that he didn't mean it!

Sorry, it occurred to absolutely none of you that the sheep might be distressed by having a bunch of noisy children running round them with one waving a stick? And you seriously thought they weren't doing any harm?

I'm just wondering if the farmer had had sheep abort and die previously (given that the children "always" do this) and was expressing her anger because she rightly felt she had found the perpetrators.

What I simply don't understand is why SIL and her friend still think they are the injured parties because of the farmer's attitude, or indeed why you condone that. If I or my children did something utterly stupid which put someone else's animals in danger I might not like it if the farmer shouted at me, but I think I would go away realising that as I was 100% in the wrong I was not in a position to complain. Does that not even cross your SIL's mind?

Well that blew up slightly while I was out. I was out in the rain getting very cold and wet and very angry because some idiot walker left a gate open, it is I will admit a very stiff gate and hard to close but that is because it is never used, it isn't a public right of way and the only way of accessing it is by climbing over a dry stone wall (or through my house). The problem is it is also the field that I keep the goats in so yes they got out and up onto the moors so tracking them and bringing them back wasn't much fun.

Can I ask why anyone thought it was ok to chase animals at all, no matter what the situation.

It wouldn't surprise me to see this in the DM. I think they should run it actually especially given the threats that have been made to the livestock and the dog. I still think the full thing has been fabricated by the OP. Fabricated or not though it's pretty stupid to post threats on a public forum.

It is this attitude of the OP and her family that spoils the countryside for everyone else. Public rights of way across privately owned land are a hard-fought right and there often understandable tensions because of this. The majority of people who use and enjoy the countryside respect the property of landowners, however a small antsocial minority, like in this case, mean that private landowners resent and put barriers in the way of the responsible majority

I am astounded that the OP is trying to blame the farmer in any way for her reaction. Pregnant or not, in whose world is it acceptable to allow children to run amok chasing animals (with a stick too). I know what words I would use if children behaved this way to any of my pets, particularly if they were on my property.

It is indeed stupid, ThankFuck.
But none of the group, with the obvious exceptions of the farmer and her dog have shown they use the brains they were born with .

'The farmer got you, your family, and their children away from her sheep, and the children will never chase sheep again.'

And she couldn't have achieved this without shouting abuse and swearing?
Had she been less aggressive I can envisage a much better outcome. Eg farmer appears, is angry but not screaming abuse, gives everyone a stern telling-off and explains sheep were put at risk of miscarriage. Cue everyone feels ashamed and apologetic. Everyone understands gravity of situation (including children), SIL offers to pay for any damage. Children never chase animals again and enjoy countryside responsibly. Farmer gets reimbursed for any damage.

Instead, it ended with me shouting at farmer to stop swearing at kids and call dog away, SIL thinking farmer was an out of control nutcase, SIL not taking anything seriously because she still thought the kids behaviour was harmless, nobody willing to pay for potential damage, a child who is now too afraid to walk in countryside, and the dad of other kids threatening to go back and cause trouble for farmer.
BTW at no point did I imply his threats were 'acceptable' (yet another hysterical conclusion someone has jumped to). I posted it to highlight how the farmer's aggressive reaction affected outcome.

The farmer's anger was justified. The way she handled the situation made it worse.

Oh for goodness sake. You just don't get it do you?
Hundreds of posts and you're still droning on in the same entrenched way.

Still not getting it.
OP - AIBU?
800 posts - Yes.
OP- you're all wrong. .

Cue everyone feels ashamed and apologetic.

But if they didn't feel this in the face of the farmer's great (and justified) anger, why on earth would you think they would have if she had been less emphatic?

You just can't admit you're in the wrong, can you, OP? There really is no hope for you and I can see no reason whatsoever for you starting this thread, when almost 1000 posts disagreeing you won't even make you question your party's behaviour, nevermind actually back down!

I, for one, am very glad the child is too scared to go to countryside again. One less problem for the hard pressed farmers. Hopefully child will keep all her obnoxious family firmly with her in town.

My thoughts too, Dido.

In which case it will be the best result possible.

OP, with each post you show your insularity and lack of comprehension.

Next time, instead of whinging on about other people, actually stand up, say "no, don't do that" and thus act like a responsible human being.

You could have stopped this.
You could have told SIL what an ignorant numpties she is
You could have apologised to the farmer without shouting and shown true contrition
You could have told dickhead dad what a stupid wanker he is with his threats.

But you didn't.

Two wrongs of not make a right.

You paint a picture of stupid people blindly declaring they can do what they wNt and refusing to accept responsibility.

And how depressing to think their children will probably have the same ignorant attitudes.

OP you have just changed the sex of the farmer
In your first post it was she and this continued
Now it is he
Stick with your story before it unravels

Apologies
I reread and you were talking about one if your intelligent party

See above for how to apologise
Not a but insight

'you won't even make you question your party's behaviour, nevermind actually back down!'

I have learned a lot from this thread, have questioned behaviour of all involved, and admitted I was wrong on several accounts. My nieces have also learned a valuable lesson thanks to information shared here that I was able to pass on.

I am not blaming farmer. I'm saying she made situation worse (mainly for herself) by reacting with such unnecessary aggression.

I always maintained SIL and friends were in wrong and admitted my behaviour did not improve situation either. I have tried to put it right, but no I am not going to include my name/address on letter in case it gets traced back to SIL. I have no right to break anyone else's anonymity. Nor am I going to pay for potential damage caused by other people's children. This is not being 'dishonourable'. I have apologised to farmer for my part in incident, and for the distress she suffered, but i am not prepared to accept responsibility for SIL's behaviour or that of her friends.

But why don't I 'give way' on every point made? Why don't I back down when confronted with this response? Because I am not swayed by a mass emotional response or ppl jumping on bandwagon.

I can't believe that the parents threw their children under the bus, yet YOU protected your dear niece and shouted (seriously, how dared you shout at the farmer???)

And what was she shouting anyway? What did she tell to the children?

I'm not buying this. Nobody could be as dense as the OP claims to be.

Hysterical? Hardly. Pissed off and annoyed at the whole groups stupidity? Definately. The children were allowed to chase livestock and your angry at the farmer? Outrageous. I've shot dogs for worrying our sheep yet your precious little cherubs are entitled to are they? You said earlier the sheep were mildly irritated which is shite. Sheep flee if chased, they panic which is WHY sheepdogs are so highly trained to keep their distance. Given you have no fucking clue about farming or livestock you wouldn't know that would you? You're the type of person never to learn from mistakes and still think you're right. You're the type of person that has absolutely no regard for the farming community or countryside. I'm so glad the children are scared to walk in the countryside. Thank fuck for that as they won't be harming livestock again while their idiots of parents look on smiling. The farmer was within her rights YOU and everyone else were wrong. Accept it.

Yabu. I feel sorry for the children for being shouted at as their parents were too selfish and stupid to explain not to chase animals.

I feel sorry for the frightened sheep, though they will be even more distressed when their lambs are removed and killed for meat.

Why don't you understand that an exhausted and stressed farmer who probably deals with idiot like you and your friends often and might have lose animals because of unrully kids before lost it. She just lost it because it was so incredibly disrepectful and ignorant.

Everybody here is upset just reading you. How must that poor woman have felt? I really wish I could know who she is and show her this thread. So she can have some support. Poor woman.

So what, the precious children cried after they were caught doing sonething wrong. Bohooo. It's 100% the parents fault, not the farmers.