To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

[Firethorn]

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

OP has constantly tried to defend SILs behaviour, saying that she is intelligent and grew up on the country but did not know it is wrong to trespass on fields, ir to case livestock and that the farmer should put up signs for the benefit of SIL and her ilk.

OP Also claimed is not common knowledge that jambs are born in the spring. If that isn't defending SIL I struggle to see what is.

There is a strong resemblance between this thread and the terrapin one where the controversial events were narrated by a third party so that the OP didn't bear any responsibility for the actions involved. Here, also, the OP puts herself at one step removed from the action and is cleverly blurring the lines between what she as narrator thinks and what her "family" say and do. It's quite a skillful technique and is being used very effectively here to stir up outrage.

Like the terrapin thread, which also ran and ran, the story concerned the welfare of animals versus children and featured a particular, familiar poster with strong views on the subject.

"as a result the moral of story is completely lost on SIL. Great result for everyone! hmm"

It is a great result.

SIL clearly doesn't have the sense she was born with, so her being too scared to go near farmland again is (regrettably) the best way of keeping everyone safe.

The worst I've had to contend with is neighbours throwing teabags, melon skins and eggshells over the fence to my pet ducks. Even that infuriated me enough to send a strongly worded letter about how certain foods were poisonous to the ducks. It made me wonder about some horses up the road that had a sign up asking people not to feed the horses as one had a damaged neck and anything other than grass would kill it. It's so sad that a sign like that is necessary.

Given the attitude of OP, her family and friends, I know agree that signs are necessary.

Fields with livestock should have signs fleas, ticks , parasitical worms and rabies.

Fields with crops on the should warn of slugs, beetles and land mines.

Katie - "Every time that you post about the farmers behaviour, you are blaming the farmer and excuse your SiL's (and family's) behaviour."

This is the statement that I disagreed with.

I do not think commenting on the farmer's behaviour is an attempt to excuse her own/sister's behaviour.

ADishBestEaten - that is shocking :( what's wrong with some people.

Well bumbleymummy I think you'll be in a minority there.

'So, if you hear children in the company of their parents using racist or homophobic language, you should not do anything because it is up to the parents? If you saw children beating up another child and the parents were excusing their behaviour, you'd do nothing?'

This sort of comment is exactly why I feel many people on this thread are getting hysterical. Yes the children were wrong to chase sheep, and I now know the sheep were at risk. However, at the time we did not know sheep are highly sensitive to stress and can die or miscarry if disturbed like this. I disagree this is common knowledge. They were not stampeding in a frenzy. They looked mildly irritated at worst. So while it was careless, ignorant and naive of SIL and friends to permit it, no-one was wilfully causing criminal damage, no-one (including sheep) APPEARED distressed or in immediate danger, and nobody was trying to offend, insult of harm anything.

Silly mistakes and accidents are part of life. I have accepted my part in this situation, admitted I was in wrong, and learned from it. I wish SIL would do same.

I'm not blaming farmer OR defending SIL. But I maintain the farmer handled it badly. Being angry and losing control of yourself, yelling abuse and obscenities, intimidating a group of children... I don't think anyone has a 'right' to do that. At end of day, what did farmer gain from behaving like this?

Imagine you are in a city, make a silly mistake driving, accidently endanger someone else eg by driving wrong way down a poorly-signposted street. Imagine other driver jumps out of car, shouts and swears at you and kids for being 'ignorant country bumpkins' etc, for not knowing street was one-way, you have no right to drive in city etc. Lets his aggressive snarling pitbull circle your children. He would likely be arrested for this sort of road rage.

Thankfuck you are not rude at all.
I could not do your job at all and i love farms!!

Op all you've done is deflect the blame from the adults and children onto the farmer.
It's the farmers fault the kids are terrorising her animals.
It's the farmers fault as there's no signs.
It's the farmers fault your sil has no common sense.
Seriously, get new friends as they are scum.
I hope the farmer catches the dad on her land!
If you seriously think that what he wants to do is acceptable then you really are no better.
There really should be longer sentences for people who think it's acceptable to harm animals and try to ruin someones livelihood!

In the OP you say you SIL says the kids always do this. So it is not the first time and probably not even the second.

How many times?

And you are just one group. Imagine this with group after group plus those with dogs also thinking it is funny.

Tell your SIL to have some respect for other people's property and livelihood and not to lie and blame her children for what she allowed.

The actions of your SIL caused all this.

I still see absolutely nothing wrong with the farmer's response to your idiotic and irresponsible family.

OP, if your children had been dogs the farmer would have been entitled to shoot them.

Think about that.

Then get your children to think about it. A good opportunity to talk about the Countryside Code.

Have a serious talk with them about their behaviour and FFS get them under control.

If needs be write a letter to the farmer apologising for your family's behaviour and explaining that you are just cretins who did not know what you were doing, but that you have now taken the time to inform yourself and will not be doing it again.

So are you saying that you are sending an anonymous letter (no return address) to the farmer?

That'll make her mend her ways.

Not.

PS: This time of the year, all the sheep are about to lamb or have recently lambed. The only product from sheep that makes any money to the farmer that feeds them is the meat. If the ewes abort or lambs get killed because of morons chasing them (quite likely if they are chased and scared), that's a year's worth of earnings down the drain for the farmer. Would you be happy to lose a year's earnings because of some idiots?

I think that, after the threats made by the 'other dad' to go back at night, open all the gates and teach the dog a lesson, that warrants a letter or even better a phone call to the local Police! I'm beyond disgusted that anyone would even consider doing this and you post this as though it's in any way acceptable?!

Really, OP, I hope I never meet you or your family anywhere on this planet. I am beyond incensed at you all! but also

If I were the farmer and I received a hostile anonymous letter from someone who had threatened my livestock and dog, I'd be rather tempted to subject it for forensic analysis to the local police department along with my complaint re livestock worrying and threats. If anybody in your household or extended family has ever been arrested, the letter can be traced back to you. Think about it.

The honourable option would be to write a profusely apologetic signed letter to the farmer saying that you won't be behaving like a twat on their fields again.

"Katie - "Every time that you post about the farmers behaviour, you are blaming the farmer and excuse your SiL's (and family's) behaviour. This is the statement that I disagreed with."

I didn't say that, Bumbley. It was Boney. And I agree with her

Did you read that OP herself was shouting and swearing at the farmer? Or that the dickhead dad threatened to kick the dog? Or that the adults lied? The farmer was shouting for a reason - her sheep were being terrorised. OP and the prat of a father were shouting because they were annoyed at being told to keep the children under control. OP has consistently refused to acknowledge this rather vital point, preferring to concentrate on the fact her niece might now be afraid of dogs.

At end of day, what did farmer gain from behaving like this?

The farmer got you, your family, and their children away from her sheep, and the children will never chase sheep again. Result. The farmer was harsh on the children but your family and friends set that up, first by giving them permission to do something so very wrong, and then by blaming the children and not admitting their own fault.

I have accepted my part in this situation, admitted I was in wrong, and learned from it. I wish SIL would do same.

Well, if you really wish for that, you might warn your SiL that she and her friends can't expect any support for what they did (or any disapproval of the farmer) from other village residents. If they’ve been letting their kids chase sheep before or showing any other signs of such culpable ignorance then I can’t imagine your SiL or the other couple are very popular.

"Imagine you are in a city" etc

The law requires that I know the rules of driving on all types of roads, and ignorance would be no legal defence for my "silly mistake driving" which "accidentally endanger someone else".
In fact, not only would my ignorance be of no legal defence, I would be guilty of a driving offence that had endangered others.

SIL said her friend (dad of other kids) was so annoyed he later told her he might go back at night and leave every gate on her land open, find her sheepdog and 'teach it a lesson'. Stupid, pointless and spiteful I know. But entirely preventable if farmer had behaved with a bit more dignity and respect, and kept dog away from kids

Are you fucking kidding me? 'entirely preventable'? The situation itself would have been preventable had you and your thick twat family had an ounce of brain matter and respect for the countryside, it's animals and it's people.

Fucking hell I can't cope with people like you your attitude astounds me.

Probably going to get reported for this but..

Ignorance is no excuse.
Especially for someone who proudly told us how intelligent her SIL was and then posted so many things that make it clear she is as thick as shit.

you handled it badly.
As did every single member in your party. But then as you claim that four adults had no knowledge that lambs are born in the spring, it's not surprising that none of you can see what rude, entitled and thoroughly unreasonable people you are.

Take some responsibility for your actions.
You stupidly allowed the children to harass the sheep.
You said nothing when the parents lied,
You shouted and swore at the farmer

I hope your family's behaviour actually becomes known in the local community who I imagine will be solidly on the side of the farmer. They won't be thrilled to have inconsiderate irresponsible ignorant idiots in their midst.

You say that these dipsticks you were with are professionals. Please tell me that that with their limited intelligence that they are not responsible for others lives or well being.
Congratulations OP you nearly filled up a whole thread! Your first as well - amazing!
Shame you never got round to cut and pasting that letter you supposedly sent to the farmer. It would have made an interesting read.