Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

1000 replies

Firethorn · 26/03/2015 18:13

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

OP posts:
Icimoi · 28/03/2015 12:35

The farmer didn't need to shout and swear at the children though.

It's understandable and excusable, though, isn't it? If I saw a group of children chasing defenceless animals around and shouting and laughing, and knew that their conduct could cause those animals to die, I rather think I'd shout and swear a bit. Especially if the adults with them started shouting at me and threatening a dog that was just trying to protect the animals in question.

KatieKaye · 28/03/2015 12:49

Yes, the farmer could explain to the child that her parents stupidity could have led to spontaneous abortion of lambs. Then she explain what this is, what it looks like etc. just so everyone fully understands the situation. She might also explain all the time this taken up in her already busy life and of course this meeting is taking up even more at what is one of the busiest times of the year.

It is analogous to the parents taking their children through an area that was patrolled by guard dogs and the children being frightened because the dog is doing what it is trained to do.

The dog and the handlers are not wrong and all the blame falls solely on the parents. If their child is scared as a result, then they only have themselves to blame and cannot expect others to pick up the pieces and salve their consciences.

OP said the children got this idea from watching sheepdogs on TV. In which case they will be aware of the dogs guarding behaviour. I suspect the child was crying because she was being told off, the adults let them down by lying and the male in the group was very aggressive, in addition to the farmers totally justified anger, which she should not have to apologise for.

Stinkersmum · 28/03/2015 12:52

chopinbabe are you taking the piss? The farmer has absolutely NOTHING to apologise for at all. The OP and her family/friends should be ashamed of themselves.

sourpotato · 28/03/2015 13:15

Really surprised at the level of vitriol being aimed at the OP here, considering a) they weren't her dc, and b) she tried to discourage the behaviour anyway. Okay, she should have been more discouraging, but she's quite readily admitted that in light of the responses! And of course OP is correct in saying the farmer shouldn't have behaved aggressively towards the children. Yes, it was understandable, but that doesn't invalidate the point that ideally the brunt of it should have been aimed at the parents.

I do think it's unreasonable to expect the farmer to put signs up, though. It is pretty much common sense that sheep shouldn't be chased, even if you don't know about lambing season and all that.

BlueCheeseandChocolate · 28/03/2015 13:22

sour I think the OP was getting a hard time for applying partial blame to the poor Farmer who was quite reasonably defending the well bring of her animals.

Icimoi · 28/03/2015 13:27

sourpotato, the parents were claiming that they had told the children not to do it. So it's not necessarily surprising if the farmers' anger was directed more towards the children, is it?

UptheChimney · 28/03/2015 13:28

It's the OP's pearl-clutching about the farmer that riles me. And her suburbanite attitude to having "signs" all over the fields, to tell people stuff they should know and observe anyway. Like not chasing or "playing with" animals in fields. Or trespassing.

sophiepotato · 28/03/2015 13:34

So now the op has got a sound bollocking,over and above what is needed towards one individual,whether they're right or wrong.
Threads like this leave me feeling unsettled.
The childrens actions were wrong,as were the adults to allow them.
The farmer didn't need to shout and swear at the children though.
No one gets the right to shout and swear at children who are behaving in a way uncorrected by adults when they are not doing something with malicious intent.

People are human and do not always maintain their temper and composure under trying conditions. The OPs companions had done something that was basically equivalent to walking into a shop and pulling the goods off the shelves and throwing them around for fun. Previous posts have very thoroughly covered why the right to walk on a footpath comes with the responsibility of ensuring you know the environment to not be a danger to yourselves or others.

The OP's companions were horrendously irresponsible and may well have caused hundreds of pounds worth of damage to the farmer's livelihood. I think it's pretty understandable that the farmer lost their temper. Furthermore, the parents actually told the farmer the children had not stopped when instructed to - given this why on earth wouldn't the farmer want to make sure that they were sufficiently scared to listen to the farmer if they are too disobedient and unruly to listen to their parents (the farmer after all does not know that the parents are lying).

Firethorn footpaths in the countryside are not modern amusement parks where every activity has been health and safety checked, with all risks listed in a bullet point assessment to allow you and your party to wander through in a heedless dream. They are a a hundreds of year old arrangement based on the now-outdated notions of common sense and people taking responsibility for their own behaviour. I suggest your friends either make more effort to educate themselves about life in the country or spend their free time at Alton Towersand/or National Trust properties.

opi · 28/03/2015 13:52

YABU - your anger directed at the other parents - a distraction from dealing with you choosing to not protect the sheep from mistreatment.

YABU - the farmer. Not ideal, but better than the farmer being calm enough to film you all instead.

YABU - scary for any child being in the middle of shouting adults no way your shouting was 'good' and the farmers bad' all the same stuff to children.

YANBU if you take responsiblity for your actions.

You and the farmer have a need for safety. All your needs could have been met on that walk. It might have worked out better if you had had more conviction with stopping what you knew was wrong at the right time. It was entirely preventable with courage.

RobinHumphries · 28/03/2015 14:26

The sheep and their distress are the important factors in this story

loveareadingthanks · 28/03/2015 15:09

"All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me"

Note the kids weren't upset by the farmer. They were upset because their parents 'turned on them', told them off and lied to blame the children. No wonder the kids were crying. Kids have a very strong sense of justice/injustice. Their parents throwing them under the bus must have been very distressing for them.

PunkrockerGirl · 28/03/2015 15:21

the result is that now a child may have suffered some lasting damage.

It's called consequences.

silveroldie2 · 28/03/2015 15:22

If I were you I would stop posting OP, you're coming over as more ridiculous with each post.

Maybe on your next walk with these friends, the children can play rounding up the bullocks - then they would really have something to cry about.

SlaggyIsland · 28/03/2015 15:40

Lol at "lasting damage" to a child from a robust telling-off.

PunkrockerGirl · 28/03/2015 15:43

Slaggy Grin

alrayyan · 28/03/2015 16:31

lasting damage poster also wept about the Greek turtle murderer being flicked unless I am much mistaken...Wink Wink

chopinbabe · 28/03/2015 16:34

I said 'lasting damage' but I wasn't so much referring to the telling off, although shouting and swearing at frightened children is wrong but rather to the real possibility that this little girl may develop a fear of sheep or dogs.

And no, to a PP, I am not 'taking the piss' but it is my feeling that everyone didn't behave as they should and that there would be no harm, once everything has settled, in each party owning up to that.

I understand the farmer's point of view but allowing a dog to snarl and growl at children, while she swore at them, is not blameless.

Obviously the OP and her foolish relations need to apologise too but my main concern is the poor child.

Stinkersmum · 28/03/2015 16:39

With any hope the children will indeed have developed a fear of sheep and dogs. It'll stop the little shits scaring them again. Nothing wrong with fearful respect.

UptheChimney · 28/03/2015 16:43

The point is though, that NOWHERE does the OP admit, or suggest, or acknowledge that she and her companions should have apologised, profusely and on the spot. Instead, she tells us that her party were justified In becoming angry with the farmer, and threatening her animals further. Then she keeps on posting about how the farmer was in the wrong.

KatieKaye · 28/03/2015 17:00

A fear of dogs is the least of that child's worries. Her feckless mother is much more worrying. Stupid, thoughtless and selfish, poor kid.

Of course OP and the father should not have shouted or swore, they were just pissed off for being found out and rightly rebuked.

But the farmer? No, it is very unreasonable to suggest that she should not have shouted. That was the quickest way to stop the children terrorising the sheep. And her swearing when confronted by the group of lying numpties is totally understandable, given that they come across as unrepentant oicks.

And the dog? It was protecting the sheep and if the child got a fright, then she's learnt an important life lesson that will stand her in good stead: don't be cruel to animals and respect other people's property. Oh, and don't trust your mother, because she doesn't give a shit and will lie to save her embarrassment. Yes, it's sad for the child to have a parent like that.

JustJanice · 28/03/2015 17:23

Oh the poor ickle children being scared by the nasty dog running round and round them and the horrible shouting!

Never mind the sheep, being scared by whooping children running round and round them Hmm

What a shower of twats.

Kleinzeit · 28/03/2015 17:24

Yes, she might develop an irrational fear of dogs. Having your parents suddenly turn on you and blame you for something they allowed you to do really is terrifying, and it would be easier for her to attach that fear to barking dogs than to her parents.

Do the parents not understand that in effect they told the farmer that they knew how dangerous it was but their kids were so ungovernable that nothing they could say or do would stop them from chasing the sheep? In which case why wouldn’t the famer let her dog have a good growl at them (it was not a physical danger to them), since human beings clearly weren’t getting through?

AuntieDee · 28/03/2015 17:29

OP you have been judged by your peers. All apart from a couple who are well known for being quite contrary have disagreed with you.

The farmer was not being unreasonable. He might have hurt your feelings but tough!

Firethorn · 28/03/2015 17:57

Well, I've just come off the phone to SIL and nieces. I spoke to both nieces at length and they now understand why they mustn't 'play' with sheep or chase animals. They were both very upset at thought of sheep losing their babies and I'm sure neither will ever chase anything again.
SIL and I had a long chat, it had not occurred to SIL sheep may be pregnant and (like me) she was unaware stress could cause them to miscarry. She said there are never any lambs in that field so thinks they are all male sheep (?) but she did agree to never let kids run amongst them in future. She also agreed not to use Chinese lanterns (we had no idea they can harm cows, so thanks for sharing this info).

SIL insists the right of way is not limited to one footpath as there are several crisscrossing footpaths leading to different walks. She also said she disagrees with people owning countryside as when she was a child apparently no-one followed footpaths, they roamed everywhere and threw themselves flat on ground if they spotted a farmer! I'm not defending SIL (and I don't agree with trespassing at all) I'm just pointing out some people have very different ideas and experiences of countryside. It doesn't mean they will leave gates open, litter or mistreat livestock, I think some people have jumped to rather hysterical conclusions on here! I understand the thread touched some raw nerves.

When I suggested signs, I didn't mean one on every gate. But if there's a popular public walk it would be wise to have a sign at start-point reminding people about extra care around pregnant animals and keeping to paths. Yes in ideal world this would not be needed, and everyone would educate their kids. But how do you force people to educate their kids and read country-code? You can't. There will always be people like my SIL who need signs. I agree most people know sheep have lambs in spring, but I don't think it's common knowledge that they are sensitive to stress and can miscarry.

TBH SIL is still so upset by farmer's outburst she is not sympathetic to farmer at all. She said her younger daughter is now refusing to walk in countryside in case they meet the farmer and dog again! She was already nervous of dogs so
being circled and snarled at (whilst yelled at by farmer) has made this anxiety worse. SIL will not hear of me taking her to that particular farm, but has agreed we'll take them to an open farm next visit to teach them more about respecting animals and building confidence around sheepdogs.

I have written a letter of apology to farmer, apologising for the kids chasing sheep and our reaction to her outburst. I have also included a polite paragraph re her own behaviour and suggested that in future she avoids swearing and shouting abuse at children. Because at end of day, while I understand now why she was furious, I think she handled the situation very badly. Being angry does not give you a right to threaten or intimidate. She didn't explain sheep could be pregnant or miscarry, and at time it seemed she was simply on an aggressive power-trip. I agree a stern telling off was needed, but an explanation for her rage would have helped us all. A stream of furious semi-unintelligable abuse makes people react defensively. SIL is still so angry and upset she is unable to appreciate farmer's point of view and would have remained clueless about pregnant sheep had I not spoken to her.

Re the comments about how would I feel if the field were my back-garden... if I bought a garden with a public right of way through it, and I decided to breed poultry in it, I would not assume everyone has the sense to stick to path. Children are naturally inquisitive and want to touch animals and not all parents are responsible. For my own peace of mind I would either fence off the path or put up a sign asking people to keep to path and not to approach animals. My garden, my animals, my responsibility.

OP posts:
SlaggyIsland · 28/03/2015 18:00

So you wrote the farmer a non-apology then?

As to your SIL's response.... I don't know where to begin with that.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.