To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

[Firethorn]

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

The fence in that link is like the one in DHs field. It's stopped the dog shit a treat.

I'd almost like to feel sorry for the OP - because she has dug such a deep hole and is frantically looking for a ladder - but I really really dont. How many times do you need to be told you are BU before you think, actually, do you know what, perhaps I am?

I'm not sure she is looking for a ladder, yolofish - I think she's put down the spade, and is at the controls of a JCB!

I was brought up in a city and would consider myself a proper townie but I know it's lambing season (how could you not?) and would never allow my DC to chase animals.

It is not an excuse.

staying and grovel well yes... if only I could drive a JCB! and as an aside, pigshit smells much worse than sheep shit

OP, you seem to fixate on the idea that this was only wrong because the sheep may have been pregnant. You've ignored the people pointing out that knowing that lambs are born in the spring isn't arcane farming knowledge but something children learn in nursery classes. You've also ignored the fact that having a group of children running around the sheep and shouting to each other cannot but be frightening to them.

Why do you and your family need signs to tell you those basic facts? And where do you suggest the signs should stop? Should there be separate signs pointing out that people also shouldn't chase cows, bullocks, pigs, hens, geese, ducks, goats etc? And that they shouldn't go through fields of growing crops, or climb on the machinery, or wander into the farmhouse?

It's just a basic fact, you use a public right of way over farmland at your own risk and subject to the very, very basic code that you don't torment the animals. If you disobey that code the owners of the animals you put at risk are going to be angry and are entitled to be, and you are not entitled to take offence at that.

Does this make sense to you OP?

If you want to use the public road, you have an obligation to educate yourself as to the rules relating to your use of that space. "I didn't know I had to give way there" is no excuse for causing an accident by failure to give way, and no-one has any obligation to put up signs saying "drive on the left". If you damage another person's property or hurt their animals because you were ignorant of and broke the road rules, that person would be perfectly justified in getting angry and no-one would expect them to calmly explain what you did wrong and "use this as a learning opportunity".

Are you with me so far???

Ok then.

If you want to use a public right of way across farmland, you have an obligation to educate yourself as to the rules relating to your use of that space. "I didn't know I wasn't to leave the path" is no excuse for causing damage by walking across land outside the pathway, and no-one has any obligation to put up signs saying "the property in this field is easily damaged if you step off the path". If you damage another person's property or hurt their animals because you were ignorant of and broke the countryside code, that person would be perfectly justified in getting angry and no-one would expect them to calmly explain what you did wrong and "use this as a learning opportunity."

I would guess if your party had a dog with them, there would be poo bags kindly hanging of gates. And then say the farmer hadn't provided bins.

There's no hope for this one. No hope at all. Are people actually this stupid? Signs to stop people chasing animalis... Wtf are you on op. How on earth does anyone not know that spring is lambing season. Have you not seen easter even on TV. This is ridiculous. You and your friends are ridiculous. I hope you're little cherubs learnt a lesson.

I tell you what OP, you should hire yourself out as a grave digger, or something like that. You're better than the Channel tunnellers!

Forgetting about the appalling issue of children being allowed to chase sheep (in what parallel universe could that ever be ok? pregnant or not) the right of way through someone's land is the footpath. You stick to the law and only walk on that part of someone else's land that you have a legal right to walk on.

Okay, page 23.
I have a tiny but of sympathy for the OP (dons hard hat) in that it would have been difficult to override the parents' decision. I would have argued with them more, but that is me and I am argumentative, forthright and 'an intelligent professional'
The parents were totally out of order to pass blame to the kids and taught their kids a very bad lesson.
However, after 23 pages, we still don't know WHAT THE FARMER ACTUALLY SAID!
OP, what did she say please?

Given the circumstances (group of adults allowing children to harass pregnant ewes) I imagine the farmers words to be forthright and very probably using a combination of "bloody", "fucking" and "hell".

Which I find totally understandable. She must have been shocked and horrified.

And then, instead of the adults apologising profusely, they wound her up even more. Which possibly resulted in more swearing. Again, I find that understandable.

Few people are going to react In a calm manner when confronted with people who are so ignorant that they allow their children to behave in a manner that endangers livestock.

So the children heard swearing? They also heard their parents deliberately lying.

None of the adults in the party come out well, other than the farmer who was trying to protect her animals. The children were never in any harm but they were endangering the sheep.

This story has probably done the rounds of the area by now with the locals being well aware of who the guilty parties are. There might be some interesting times ahead for SIL and her mates. She might even have a visit from the local police to try to educate her in how to behave while crossing farmland.

Maybe the farmer was more forward with her telling off because she was told that previous gentler rebukes from patents had fallen on deaf ears. So you can blame your sil and bil if the farmer took the children ticking off in her own hands, because clearly the patents weren't doing their job.
I'd also imagine that a sheep dog circling and growling is what it's supposed to do, and they round up the she's that way. It didn't bite or attempt to bite and it sounds to me was under control, so I don't know what the complaint is there either.

Parents not patents. And sheep not she's. Autocorrect fail.

OP I still don't think you've got it, but i just need to bring you up on this point:

You don't own the countryside and footpaths just because you were born there... you share them and learn to co-exist with others, even if they are from a different background.

You're quite right that we don't own the fields because we were born there. There is a healthy market in farmland and it is traded regularly. I own the land because I'VE HAD TO PAY FOR IT! Farmland is £10k an acre near enough at the moment. Try making that sort of capital injection in your business and then have some numpty tell you that you should share it with them.

As for the sign issue, I don't want to see a countryside that is covered in signs. It is a natural environment, not to be surburbanised with information signs all over it. Are we really to have an information point on every gate? Can you imagine how unsightly that would be?

I hope you have many more less dramatic walks in the countryside and learn to appreciate it for the working environment it is. We don't put scary animals in our fields, don't shout at walkers, and offer to help if they are lost or the cows are blocking the path. But you would get sworn at for frightening or endangering animals.

Just a final tip OP, so that you can never claim that you haven't been told about this. Those Chinese lantern things are lethal if cows eat the wire part, so please don't use them.

So now the op has got a sound bollocking,over and above what is needed towards one individual,whether they're right or wrong.
Threads like this leave me feeling unsettled.
The childrens actions were wrong,as were the adults to allow them.
The farmer didn't need to shout and swear at the children though.
No one gets the right to shout and swear at children who are behaving in a way uncorrected by adults when they are not doing something with malicious intent.

Op,I think there's no way anyone would leave this thread knowing its wrong to let children chase sheep.
But lets face it,you never said it was right,as you've tried to explain.

I think you've had a rough time here,because this has allowed a lot of venting generally from people about the way some people abuse the countryside,and I think you've been in the line of fire.I hope you're ok

Oh,and YANBU in your opening line.
A statement you made that appears to have got lost somehow.....

Sorry,no one wouod leave this thread without knowing its wrong to chase sheep....

It's kind of you to try and stick up for her ThatBloodyWoman, but the OP has repeatedly been told things because she has repeatedly tried to put the blame on the farmer, including suggesting that a) she (the farmer) had a dangerous dog b) that she should have erected signs c) that it is quite in order to be ignorant of farming practices when on a farm and that the onus is on the farmer to assist the ignorant walker.

I might agree with you on swearing, (slightly ironic given your user name) but outside in the open, on what could well have been a windy day, where the farmer could see her sheep being chased? I think shouting may have been in order to stop them earlier than if she had had to run after the children herself and quietly ask them to desist from chasing the sheep!

Crikey what a thread, have just skimmed through all 23 pages and think that the OP has been well and truly told.

I live in the country completely surrounded by pregnant ewes, no-where near any cities where town folk might come out to walk and we have signs on our gates telling people that there are pregnant ewes in the fields and to kindly take care.

I don't think it's particularly fair to make assumptions that towns people should know about livestock welfare and all this moral high ground over thinking this and why should signs be put up is a bit self defeating. Why wouldn't you take steps to be absolutely sure that your livestock were kept safe even if it seems blatantly obvious to you, that is being very presumptious.

Conversely I do think that the farmer had every right to be angry given that this is the height of lambing and that she perceived a threat to her flock. The parents' should have taken that on the chin and apologised profusely not threatened to kick the dog.

OP, welcome to MN. Quite a big thread for your first day?

I told my 8 yo urban DD about this thread. She was horrified and told me - without prompting - that sheep are carrying lambs just now and die if scared.

Firstly, your party was very wrong to allow and even encourage the children to behave in this way.

However, I do find the image of a small girl cowering behind her aunt while a dog bared its teeth and growled and a woman shouted and swore, quite upsetting.

No-one can blame her for being angry but the result is that now a child may have suffered some lasting damage.

It might be a good idea for the OP to make an appointment with the farmer and attend with her niece. The child can apologise, the OP can apologise and the farmer can apologise for her part, as well as calmly explaining why she lost her temper.

Maybe the child could then meet the sheep and the dog in an effort to avoid her developing a fear, or even a phobia, which could stay with her for life.

After all, the child and her distress are important factors in this story.